"The state refuses to classify bison as wildlife instead of livestock, meaning they must be fenced"
I find it quite amusing how many conservatives ignore basic reality.
American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
181–190 of 199 posts
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I go back and forth on this. I love the idea of preserving land but this also seems to be a way for the wealthy to insulate their home eg buy 10 acres next to your house and declare it undeveloped. Now you get an amazing property in a pristine zone that nobody can touch all while getting a tax break you don’t need and boxing out the next generation.
"Boxing out the next generation" is exactly what the law is for. I guess we have to decide whether we want more natural wilderness or more luxury homes with nice views. The only way I can think of to preserve the wilderness without any isolated homes for the wealthy is for the government to buy up the land. I'd probably support that, if we could get it done, but it does mean that if the money for it comes out of the…
If you want to see the actual mechanisms and debate, Boulder, Colorado did this with a belt of “open space” in the 1980s. One consequence was that it brought natural parts of that land close, which includes wildfire.
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#183The UK has a much more intelligent (though far from perfect) approach to land use. It has public rights of way (if on foot, horse or bicycle) crossing the whole country. You can walk from one end of Britain to the other without trespassing, and without using roads (much). Many of these paths are very, very old, in a few cases Roman or pre-Roman, although more are medieval. Until recently, they were based on common la…
>The American eighteenth-century enlightenment approach is an attempt to make everything tidy: it's based on the rationalist idea that a thing is its definition and nothing more. So private property is private, that means nobody else can use it: case closed. You may be unaware, but the American legal system allows for property owners to be held civilly responsible for the actions of uninvited individuals, including c…
The reason sane property owners maintain those roads is for firefighters.
Every state I’ve lived in has landowner indemnification for trails. In Colorado, the landowner must put up signs for hazards, though a local group always exists to help with this. In my experience, the rationale for such a trail to be closed always comes down to a single person ruining it for everyone else.
The second you charge money (for hunting, usually), all that protection goes away.
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m fairly contrarian so I’m not surprised to get banned on occasion but I’ve noticed in the past few months completely innocuous statements are triggering the “you’re posting too fast ban”
Just own it and steamroll with it. No need to try to appease anyone. F HN and dang etc for knowing about downvote abuse and being OK with it.
check my post history, I don't think I hold back. I will back dang and the HN moderation on the point that I have not been perma-banned, so they are not complete authoritarian moderators like most social media sites. And if I am being entirely honest some of my temp bans were deserved.
I just wanted to point out that it seems that the sensitivity for what is ban-able has been turned up
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Americans happily signed treaties with the natives and reneged. The law didn't matter as the law was ignored.
I'm talking about King Phillip's war a century and a half before most of the treaty violation stuff started happening in earnest.
Wasn’t King Philip’s War about a treaty that insisted natives be disarmed?
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#186The UK has a much more intelligent (though far from perfect) approach to land use. It has public rights of way (if on foot, horse or bicycle) crossing the whole country. You can walk from one end of Britain to the other without trespassing, and without using roads (much). Many of these paths are very, very old, in a few cases Roman or pre-Roman, although more are medieval. Until recently, they were based on common la…
I don’t know if I want random people walking through or camping on my land.
The pattern around me is that the kind of people who ignore trespassing signs also ignore fire bans.
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#187Perhaps it is a good place to mention that _today_ is the last day to submit comments on the potential effects of rescinding the 2001 Roadless Rule:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/08/29/2025-16...
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want people roaming through my yard and stepping on my plants and stuff or god forbid they bring their stinky dogs and their urine and feces so I have a fence put up to keep them out.
Sweden has the right to roam on privately owned nature property but it is trumped by exceptions for crops and the right to privacy at home. So it’s not ok - and not done - to walk in peoples yards etc. The rules are well taught at schools and well explained for tourists and it just works nicely.
In the United States at least we don't really have privately owned nature property like you might in Sweden. I live in Ohio for example, there's nothing to go see or look at. We have no need for the right to roam. What are you going to do, roam through a cornfield? A parking lot? The woods? The mall? Well you can already do that. We have state parks, local parks, national parks, etc. to get your nature fix and it works very well here, there are no complaints about this whatsoever.
Sometimes Europeans are so convinced that their way of life is better or their policies are the best they forget that sometimes their policies solve problems that don't exist in other countries. There's no need to have a right to roam in America. There's nowhere to roam to, and the places that you would roam to are already owned by the public where you have... the right to roam! Though we are much more strict about natural preservation in those parks which sometimes conflicts with the desires of some to go "off trail", but that's a separate issue.
The UK might be a little different, granted, but the no-true-scotsman approach to someone suggesting they enjoy the UK's right to roam but they can't because the Nordic countries are so much better in this regard is annoying, to say the least.
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
State and local managed land is also quite a bit more restrictive than the Federal Public Land you find out West in the US.
Depends where. The Adirondack Preserve, for example, is more permissive than a lot of federal land.
There are exceptions but most state land is more restrictive. It's tedious to always put the "besides some rare exceptions" caveat on every statement.
Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana
#190"The state refuses to classify bison as wildlife instead of livestock, meaning they must be fenced" I find it quite amusing how many conservatives ignore basic reality.
Classification of wildlife vs livestock is a complicated issue.
You should read about the history of Yellowstone and its creation :) You'll end up with an opinion that probably matches your current opinion, but at least you'll understand where it all comes from.