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How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

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Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#181

Post by cjrp »

hnlmorg wrote: post #161
lmm wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not supposed to drive 60mph on those tiny roads. You are supposed to drive 60mph where appropriate, e.g. on straight stretches with good visibility and no junctions. It's very possible to fail your driving test for not going fast enough on a single carriageway.

It’s equally possibly to fail for going too fast while still under the speed limit. What you’re supposed to do is drive at a speed that gives you chance to react to dangers given your visibility and road surface conditions. For country roads, they’re typically winding rather than straight. So more often than not, that means you shouldn’t be travelling much past 30mph. But you are right that straight stretches do exis…

> What you’re supposed to do is drive at a speed that gives you chance to react to dangers given your visibility and road surface conditions.

Indeed, I always think of my instructor's words "can you stop within the distance you can see". As that distance decreases, you should be slowing down; potentially there's a cyclist or horse right around the corner.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#182

Post by 2dvisio »

Just back from a 8500+km road trip (car, wife, and two kids 6 and 1) around Europe where we visited 9 countries (UK, Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Greece). For us as a family, France and UK had the safest and more relaxing roads. Italy was OK compared to the usual standard, Slovenia and Croatia had highways with too many slopes but people drive carefully. The ones where we struggled and developed high anxiety were (surprisingly!) Germany and Switzerland. In both latter countries we seriously struggled to relax as driving in any lane becomes a stressful experience. We have decided NOT to cross those countries anymore in our next trips sadly.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#183

Post by pjc50 »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #22

As somebody who has driven in a few places around the World, I would say that overall the standard of driving and safety is remarkably high in the UK given that the road layouts are often quite confusing (we have roads in use today from Roman, Saxon, Norman, Medieval, Tudor and more modern phases of development, so it can get confusing), and the level of signage around some confusing layouts is much lower than, say,…

The one thing we should take from US driving is put above-lane signs in a lot more places. Writing the sign on the road is useless in traffic.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#184

Post by looofooo0 »

2dvisio wrote: post #182

Just back from a 8500+km road trip (car, wife, and two kids 6 and 1) around Europe where we visited 9 countries (UK, Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Greece). For us as a family, France and UK had the safest and more relaxing roads. Italy was OK compared to the usual standard, Slovenia and Croatia had highways with too many slopes but people drive carefully. The ones where we struggled…

By death per km France, Italy, Slovenia and Croatia are more dangerous then Germany or Switzerland. German Autobahn is crazy and non-pleasant if you drive slow, but in Switzerland everyone follows the speed limit so it is quite relaxing. Also, you seem to struggle with mountainous roads, which depends on the topography and not the country.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#185

Post by frereubu »

dotwaffle wrote: post #103
philjohn wrote: post #48

Our driving test standards are also high, having spoken with US colleagues, much higher than state-side (although I imagine that varies from state to state). The theory test you must pass before taking your practical also now includes a hazard perception test - you are shown multiple videos and must click when you first perceive a hazard - the earlier you click after the hazard presents the higher your score - but if…

> also now includes a hazard perception test I took my test nearly 25 years ago, and this was present then -- for the avoidance of doubt, the UK test has always been very thorough, though not quite as thorough as those in places like Finland where apparently they have skid pans and similar!

Seems like we were either side of a threshold - I took mine ~35 years ago and the only "theory" test was the examiner asking me three basic questions after the practical test, like "what can lead to skidding" to which the answer was "rapid acceleration, steering or braking". The theory side of things hardly existed essentially.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#186

Post by roygbiv2 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #162
sas224dbm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A favorite past-time back in the day was driving at night from pub to pub along the 'back roads' (B-roads specifically in the UK) as fast as 'possible'. There were typically no street lights, however lights from other vehicles showed up alerting you to any possible danger. It was fun at the time, but i wouldn't do it now .. lol ..

That’s great just so long as your county roads doesn’t have any dog walkers or wildlife like deer. The best case scenario then, is that you write off your car with a deer shaped hole in the front. The worst case scenario is you have a death on your conscience for the rest of your life.

I hit a pheasant on such a road once, not driving at silly speed but it was pitch black. My fog light was never seen again, nor the pheasant.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#187

Post by 2dvisio »

looofooo0 wrote: post #184
2dvisio wrote: post #182

Just back from a 8500+km road trip (car, wife, and two kids 6 and 1) around Europe where we visited 9 countries (UK, Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Greece). For us as a family, France and UK had the safest and more relaxing roads. Italy was OK compared to the usual standard, Slovenia and Croatia had highways with too many slopes but people drive carefully. The ones where we struggled…

By death per km France, Italy, Slovenia and Croatia are more dangerous then Germany or Switzerland. German Autobahn is crazy and non-pleasant if you drive slow, but in Switzerland everyone follows the speed limit so it is quite relaxing. Also, you seem to struggle with mountainous roads, which depends on the topography and not the country.

Agree, though an intensive one (8500km in 6 weeks) that is just subjective experience, which is why I caveated it mentioning that it was our own family personal experience.

I lived in a mountainous area of Italy (very narrow roads, full of ups and downs) so I am a fairly confident driver (probably why I was not too stressed driving in Italy) and drove in countries like India and Iran in the past (so very familiar and happy with slow, but very crowded and unpredictable traffic).

To clarify, the anxiety we had on Autobahn and Swiss' highways was not a reflection on the quality of the roads, and more a reflection on the driving 'style' combined with the speed that those roads allow. The style was quite aggressive, very fast in every lane, loads of overtakes (car constantly zig-zagging), people coming from the back _FAST_ and staying there, people switching lanes immediately after signalling rather than giving some time for people to notice. Overall, that combination made for a very stressful experience which we have agreed (as family) not to repeat in the future.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#189

Post by robertlagrant »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #177
closewith wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I do think 15mi/h or 24km/h is appropriate speed for that road if you want it to be usable by vulnerable road users. I just wondered what hdgvhicv considered appropriate.

50-60 is fine on that road, indeed given the traffic and sight lines it’s far better than the majority of roads, far safer than 20 in a typical town. That you think 15mph is appropiate tells me you need to hand back your license.

This is again a problem of familiarity, or perhaps of naïveté. Roads can have hard to spot potholes, particularly slightly rough roads like that, and people might not be comfortable zipping along them without the knowledge of that.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#190

Post by gambiting »

Lio wrote: post #174
gambiting wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in the UK for over 15 years now and I still can't get over people's general allergy for using indicators. And I know the test and training specifically tell you that you must use indicators when changing lanes and turning, but if I had a penny for every time I see someone on the motorway changing lanes without indicating I'd make a very good middle class salary from that alone. But yes, other than this peo…

Those not indicating are bad drivers. However, I'm not sure if this is what you mean but when changing lanes on a British Motorway you only need to indicate when pulling out not when pulling in. Sometimes it can be helpful to do so when pulling in too but it's not a legal requirement since undertaking (except in slow moving traffic) is also ilegal.

"changing lanes on a British Motorway you only need to indicate when pulling out not when pulling in."

I've heard multiple people say this in the past, including driving instructors(!!!!!) and it's just not true.

Highway Code article 133 clearly says:

"Lane discipline 133 If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over".

You always have to indicate when changing lanes. There is no distinction made between pulling in or out by the highway code, I honestly think people made it up in their heads and they keep to it - maybe because you don't need to indicate back when overtaking on a single lane road, but that doesn't apply on multi-lane carriageways. However the point seems to be mostly academic as in my experience most people don't bother indicating at all on a motorway, whether pulling in or out.

"since undertaking (except in slow moving traffic) is also ilegal."

Highway code doesn't mention anything about slow moving traffic, just "similar speeds" - so it's perfectly legal to undertake a vehicle going 68mph when you're going 70mph, if the traffic is heavy:

"Rule 268 Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."

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