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I ditched Docker for Podman

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Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#181

Post by bongodongobob »

nickjj wrote: post #46
t43562 wrote: post #21

To provide 1 contrary opinion to all the others saying they have a problem: Podman rocks for me! I find docker hard to use and full of pitfalls and podman isn't any worse. On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win!

> On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win! Was this a deal breaker for any company? I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free. If you have a dev team of 10 people and are extremely profitable to where you need licenses you'd end up paying $9…

I work for a $2 billion/yr company and we need three levels of approval for a Visio license. I've never been at a large corp where you could just order shit like that. You'll have to fill out forms , have a few meetings about it, business justification spreadsheets etc, then get told it's not in the budget.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#182

Post by akerl_ »

dboreham wrote: post #164
almosthere wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is hard in a large company and they have hired teams to manage procurement so this is just you over thinking.

Typically the team they hired is focused on you not procuring things.

I think a lot of this boils down to Procurement's good outcome generally being quite different than the good outcome for each team that wants a purchase.

To draw a parallel: imagine a large open source project with a large userbase. The users interact with the project and a bunch of them have ideas for how to make it better! So they each cut feature requests against the project. The maintainers look at them. Some of the feature requests they'll work on, some of them they'll take well-formed pull requests. But some they'll say "look, we get that this is helpful for you, but we don't think this aligns with the direction we want the project to go".

A good procurement team realizes that every time the business inks a purchase agreement with a vendor, the company's portfolio has become incrementally more costly. For massive deals, most of that cost is paid in dollars. For cheaper software, the sticker price is low but there's still the cost of having one more plate to juggle for renewals / negotiations / tracking / etc.

So they're incentivized to be polite but firm and push back on whether there's a way to get the outcome in another way.

(this isn't to suggest that all or even most procurement teams are good, but there is a kernel of sanity in the concept even though it's often painful for the person who wants to buy something)

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#183

Post by bonzini »

Tajnymag wrote: post #80
bonzini wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> podman had a much worse performance compared to docker on my small cloud vps. Can't really go into details though. Are you using rootless podman? Then network redirection is done using user more networking, which has two modes: slirp4netns is very slow, pasta is the newer and good one. Docker is always set up from the privileged daemon; if you're running podman from the root user there should be no difference.

Well, yes, but rootless is basically the main selling point of podman. Once you start using daemons and privileged containers, you can just keep using docker.

No, the main selling point is daemonless. For example, you put podman in a systemd unit and you can stop/start with systemctl without an external point of failure.

Comparing root docker with rootless podman performance is apples to oranges. However, even for rootless pasta does have good performance.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#184

Post by smileysteve »

nickjj wrote: post #46
t43562 wrote: post #21

To provide 1 contrary opinion to all the others saying they have a problem: Podman rocks for me! I find docker hard to use and full of pitfalls and podman isn't any worse. On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win!

> On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win! Was this a deal breaker for any company? I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free. If you have a dev team of 10 people and are extremely profitable to where you need licenses you'd end up paying $9…

To bring up AI, and the eventual un-subsidizing of costs; if $9 a year is too much for docker... Then even the $20/mo (June) price tag is too high for AI, much less $200 (August), or $2000? (post subsidizing)

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#189

Post by nunez »

I started working at Red Hat this past year, so obviously all Podman, all day long. It's a super easy switch. I moved to using Containerfiles in my LinkedIn courses as well, if for no other reason than it having a much more "open" naming convention!

Rootless works great, though there are some (many) images that will need to be tweaked out of the box.

Daemonless works great as well. You can still mount podman.sock like you can with Docker's docker.sock, but systemd handles dynamically generating the UNIX socket on connect() which is a much better solution than having the socket live persistently.

The only thing that I prefer Docker for is Compose. Podman has podman-compose, which works well and is much leaner than the incumbent, but it's kind of a reverse-engineered version of Docker Compose that doesn't support the full spec. (I had issues with service conditions, for example).

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#190

Post by dktalks »

dktalks wrote: post #186

If you are on a Mac, I have been using OrbStack[1] and it has been fantastic. I spin up few containers there, but my biggest use is just spinning up Alpine linux and then running most of my Docker containers in there. [1] https://orbstack.dev/

Setup is really easy once you install alpine

1. ssh orb (or machine name if you have multiple) 2. sudo apk add docker docker-cli-compose (install docker) 3. sudo addgroup docker (add user to docker group) 4. sudo rc-update add docker default (set docker to start on startup)

Bonus, add lazydocker to manage your docker containers in a console

1. sudo apk add lazydocker

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