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Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

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Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#181

Post by audunw »

reactordev wrote: post #35

They did this to micro sd cards on the first switch. Looks like they found another way. Nintendo isn’t customer friendly. Gone are the days of the N64 and gone are the days of Nintendo pushing the boundaries of fun and entertainment. Now, they make underpowered handhelds for kids with proprietary dongles like Apple in hopes of trapping their customers to their platform. No thanks.

Weird comparison. With N64 everything was proprietary. The power brick, the memory card, the controllers. With Switch a lot more follows standards. USB-C charging. SD for storage. Bluetooth for controllers and headsets.

I don’t see a single reason to think Nintendo of that time would do anything differently.

The reason for not accepting whatever dock/adapter seems pretty good in this case. The dock should have active cooling to conform to user expectations. And there’s no signs that Nintendo will prevent anyone from making a dock that supports it as long as it follows the procedure to confirm that it has active cooling.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#182

Post by naikrovek »

SifJar wrote: post #75
KeplerBoy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that their behavior is user-hostile, but doing it their way gets rid of all of the ambiguity involved with USB C. I kind of understand why they would rather break their USBC support intentionally and make it very clear that video out is only happening with their dock. Especially considering their audiences.

> doing it their way gets rid of all of the ambiguity involved with USB C At that point, why use USB-C for the dock connection at all? Just use a proprietary connector if you're not going to follow the standards. Having a separate USB-C port for charging should satisfy e.g. the EU regulations requiring that, I think. (Assuming that is the reason they used USB-C in the first place)

> At that point, why use USB-C for the dock connection at all? Just use a proprietary connector if you're not going to follow the standards.

They are following the standards. They don't have to communicate with devices that they don't want to communicate with. There's no requirement in the USB spec that connected Type-C compliant devices interoperate in all cases.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#183

Post by naikrovek »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #99
alpaca128 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> make it very clear that video out is only happening with their dock What about it is "very clear"? It worked on the Switch 1, it's expected to work as it's USB, there is no error message, it just will appear that maybe the USB dongle or HDMI cable or whatever is defective.

The switch 1 situation also wasn't great with reports of switches being bricked or picky about 3rd party docks. I guess that's why they stopped trying to be compatible at all.

There was one dock which did this, and firmware on the Switch 1 quickly worked around the problem the Nyko dock had, and Nyko released new hardware which prevented the problem that the Nintendo Switch firmware update worked around.

The Nintendo Switch wasn't super picky about docks, but in order for external display to work, the dock had to support the mobile DisplayPort protocol that Nintendo used, "MyDP" instead of vanilla DisplayPort, which is what most devices supported at the time the Switch was released. Again, that wasn't a non-compliant thing on the part of the Switch, the Switch just used a technology that wasn't commonly used by much else, which is very commonly done by Nintendo.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#184

Post by cma »

fxtentacle wrote: post #177
cma wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why would they? They are not in the business of selling USB monitors Not true, they block nreal to make them pay the store fee for an enabling app to make their usbc mini monitors work with the switch.

Assuming that you are referring to the Nreal Air VR goggles, those cannot accept a regular video signal over USB-C. They are NOT monitors. For making them work, they need to do pre-processing of the video stream on the host device, thereby degrading gaming performance. That's why they need an app, because they lack an integrated CPU/GPU and that makes them not compliant with the USB-C monitor spec. And I believe that…

Oh I didn't realize that, I thought they were blacklisting the EDID or something. I thought the projection for them would be simple enough to do on the device, but maybe the unwarping and chromatic aberration correction was too expensive for that or something.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#185

Post by naikrovek »

mathiaspoint wrote: post #179
naikrovek wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It renders at 1080p and the dock doesn't get as hot. Note that the cooling fan inside the dock is for cooling the dock and not the Switch 2 itself. The Switch 2 has its own fan for that. So while not everyone docks the Switch 2 to a 4K display, the Switch 2 dock must support that.

DP -> HDMI conversion hardware is pretty intense. I haven't owned a device that does this and doesn't at least get warm.

> DP -> HDMI conversion hardware is pretty intense.

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. DisplayPort is mostly a superset of HDMI, with different voltage levels. Going from HDMI to DisplayPort is much harder than going from DisplayPort to HDMI, though the hardware to do this is apparently much cheaper than it used to be, which is nice to see.

DisplayPort to HDMI only requires level shifting, as I understand it. I'm sure someone will correct me if they see this and I'm wrong.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#186

Post by manwe150 »

naikrovek wrote: post #185
mathiaspoint wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DP -> HDMI conversion hardware is pretty intense. I haven't owned a device that does this and doesn't at least get warm.

> DP -> HDMI conversion hardware is pretty intense. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. DisplayPort is mostly a superset of HDMI, with different voltage levels. Going from HDMI to DisplayPort is much harder than going from DisplayPort to HDMI, though the hardware to do this is apparently much cheaper than it used to be, which is nice to see. DisplayPort to HDMI only requires level shifting, as I understand it. I'm…

No, it requires active protocol conversion, https://www.exhibitedge.com/how-to-connect-a-displayport-dev...

But also yes, most display port implementations also speak hdmi and can get away with simple converters

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#187

Post by vel0city »

ninjatendo wrote: post #159
divingdragon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did this to micro sd cards on the first switch. What do you mean? From what I know it was bog-standard microSD(HC/XC) with the maximum supported speed being UHS-I with nothing proprietary.

It's more nuanced than that. The nintendo software prevents things, like save games, being saved at places which it deems unworthy.

But that's not something with only approved microSD cards work with save games. The Switch will not write save game data to any microSD card, regardless of features/manufacturer/branding/royalty payments/whatever. It's just not a supported feature, at all.

The GGP comment makes it sound like Nintendo only supported proprietary microSD cards at launch. While they did sell and recommend their branded microSD cards, one could use any brand of microSD card with the system and have the same functionality.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#188

Post by kjkjadksj »

reactordev wrote: post #35

They did this to micro sd cards on the first switch. Looks like they found another way. Nintendo isn’t customer friendly. Gone are the days of the N64 and gone are the days of Nintendo pushing the boundaries of fun and entertainment. Now, they make underpowered handhelds for kids with proprietary dongles like Apple in hopes of trapping their customers to their platform. No thanks.

When has nintendo not tried to trap customers to their platform? Every single piece of the n64 is proprietary.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#189

Post by vel0city »

blueflow wrote: post #77

I mean, we are already at the point where you have to put a colored tape on all your usb plugs and sockets to know which ones are compatible and which ones will brick your devices. Maybe its time to drop the "universal" aspect and go back to propietary ports?

If I have a cable that sucks, I don't bother tagging it. It just goes in the bin. If it doesn't list what its ratings are, I don't buy it. Why bother keeping cables that don't do what you need it to do? Why bother buying cables that don't fit your needs?

I'm far happier that I only have one charger in my backpack that works for practically all my portable electronics. I'm far happier I've got an extra power bank in my bag that works with one cable to charge practically all my portable electronics and can be charged by that one wall adapter. I'm far happier I have one dock cable on my desk that provides power/kvm/network to my work laptop, my personal laptop, my spouse's tablet, etc. Far better than having a dozen different cables for a dozen different devices.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#190

Post by cma »

cma wrote: post #184
fxtentacle wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that you are referring to the Nreal Air VR goggles, those cannot accept a regular video signal over USB-C. They are NOT monitors. For making them work, they need to do pre-processing of the video stream on the host device, thereby degrading gaming performance. That's why they need an app, because they lack an integrated CPU/GPU and that makes them not compliant with the USB-C monitor spec. And I believe that…

Oh I didn't realize that, I thought they were blacklisting the EDID or something. I thought the projection for them would be simple enough to do on the device, but maybe the unwarping and chromatic aberration correction was too expensive for that or something.

Or maybe it allows some of the warping to happen with GPU extensions that allow for some non-readback processing of DRM protected textures
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