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Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

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Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#181

Post by Cthulhu_ »

pabs3 wrote: post #92
jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

... and we should be able to run whatever OS on Apple phones we want.

But the OS is the main thing that sets Apple apart from other phones; you can get equivalent hardware for half the price, and you get to install whatever OS you want already. The prison is mainly in your head in this case.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#182

Post by pjc50 »

pen2l wrote: post #178

People here miss the value of a tightly moderated walled garden: I don't have to worry about downloading things that are misleading or are chock full of dark patterns, because it has been vetted by an App Store that I trust. And when I download an app with a subscription through App Store, I can see any time how much it costs, I can cancel it any time no fuss: https://www.iphonelife.com/sites/iphonelife.com/files/sty…

If an alternative app store existed, you could just .. not install it? Does the mere existence of an alternative harm you if you never use it?

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#183

Post by ohdeargodno »

ben_w wrote: post #156
tekkk wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a stupid argument. Maybe grandpas and grandmas should get a different phone then, like a Doro, and stop bringing the rest of us down. And it doesn't even hold water as my mother has been scammed by legitimate App Store apps that have charged extra-fees just because they could.

> Maybe grandpas and grandmas should get a different phone then, like a Doro They did, they got an iPhone. > my mother has been scammed by legitimate App Store apps that have charged extra-fees just because they could. Did it empty her bank balance by abusing the private NFC payment APIs that Apple are being ordered to open up? Did it cryptolock all her files? Did it activate the camera and mic to spy on her for blac…

>Did it empty her bank balance by abusing the private NFC payment APIs that Apple are being ordered to open up?

NFC payment APIs have been open on Android for decades and no such thing of the sort has ever happened. You cannot magically conjure up a payment from Apple Pay to without user involvement and confirmation.

>Did it cryptolock all her files?

Apps do not have write access to all your files.

>Did it activate the camera and mic to spy on her for blackmail?

Every mobile device now has a giant notification saying that the device is using the microphone or recording video.

The disingenuous "having an open app store/not being locked in the walled garden is a security risk" is getting tiring, especially when it's basically all lies now. Unless your argument is that Apple is too incompetent to write APIs properly, in which case I wonder why you think that said APIs being private would prevent anything.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#184

Post by pjc50 »

jterrys wrote: post #150
jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

I agree with you in principle. But I also, I guess, kinda just have a dumb thought about this whole ordeal. Broadly speaking, we are in a position where we, the general public with the backing of the government, want to change how a private corporation uses it's products that it sold to us. Not for any other reason that would shield us from harm or prevent risk, but rather because the corporation's products are so su…

> Broadly speaking, we are in a position where we, the general public with the backing of the government, want to change how a private corporation uses it's products that it sold to us

Yes, because it's "we the people" not "we the corporations".

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#185

Post by azangru »

jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

> But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want.

I agree with you. But, as devil's advocate, why not suggest that Apple should be allowed to run as crappy a store as they want, while people should be free not to buy Apple?

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#186

Post by pen2l »

pjc50 wrote: post #182
pen2l wrote: post #178

People here miss the value of a tightly moderated walled garden: I don't have to worry about downloading things that are misleading or are chock full of dark patterns, because it has been vetted by an App Store that I trust. And when I download an app with a subscription through App Store, I can see any time how much it costs, I can cancel it any time no fuss: https://www.iphonelife.com/sites/iphonelife.com/files/sty…

If an alternative app store existed, you could just .. not install it? Does the mere existence of an alternative harm you if you never use it?

I'd rather another one not exist, because then it would become a game of incentives... app owners might only make their apps available on THAT App Store, resulting in App Store's value being diminished. I would like that the one App Store be the one and the only one in a KISS principle. Apple so far hasn't failed me, and so I continue to trust it and its judicious management and curation of apps.

Folks who care about having any app they want through alternative stores I wish would just opt for Android systems.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#187

Post by merelysounds »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #176
jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

I wonder what Apple's bigger fear is - losing that ~30% cut, which is massive, or when they have to compete with alternative app stores and when finally people see how forward "software finesse" has come to in 2025 and how pathetic Apple's software/service ecosystem has been, losing most of the remaining whatever reduced cut it was; i.e. getting hammered at both ends. I think that's why they are fighting tooth and na…

> how pathetic Apple's software/service ecosystem has been

Compared to what?

Also, are we certain that a better alternative would really appear? E.g. I’m aware of f-droid and I’d install a similar ios libre software store, but I’m not aware of any, even in the EU where alt stores are possible.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#188

Post by pjc50 »

pen2l wrote: post #186
pjc50 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an alternative app store existed, you could just .. not install it? Does the mere existence of an alternative harm you if you never use it?

I'd rather another one not exist, because then it would become a game of incentives... app owners might only make their apps available on THAT App Store, resulting in App Store's value being diminished. I would like that the one App Store be the one and the only one in a KISS principle. Apple so far hasn't failed me, and so I continue to trust it and its judicious management and curation of apps. Folks who care about…

Ah, the Highlander principle: there can be only one. The complete opposite of a "market", of course, which is why the rest of us are gearing up the non-market mechanisms against it.

This applies in reverse, of course. The existence of the Apple store makes certain apps only available for the Apple store (iOS only), so therefore us Android users need to have it banned so we can continue to have choice.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#190

Post by 3form »

pen2l wrote: post #186
pjc50 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an alternative app store existed, you could just .. not install it? Does the mere existence of an alternative harm you if you never use it?

I'd rather another one not exist, because then it would become a game of incentives... app owners might only make their apps available on THAT App Store, resulting in App Store's value being diminished. I would like that the one App Store be the one and the only one in a KISS principle. Apple so far hasn't failed me, and so I continue to trust it and its judicious management and curation of apps. Folks who care about…

Is one store not just a different game of incentives? One where instead of going off to a different platform, your experience will be as enshittified as it can within the bounds of the one and only?
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