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Black Swan Farming

paulgraham.com

181–190 of 321 posts

Re: Black Swan Farming

#181
post #12

The counter-intuitive nature of startup investing is a big part of what makes it so interesting to me. In most aspects of life, we are trained to avoid risk and only pursue "good ideas" (e.g. try to be a lawyer, not a rock star). With startups, I get to focus on things that are probably bad ideas, but possibly great ideas. It's not for everyone, but for those of us who love chasing dreams, it can be a great adventure…

> "The counter-intuitive nature of startup investing..."

The hidden premise of that statement, appears to imply there exists a universal intuition to which this is "counter". I'm not sure that is completely accurate, and is perhaps more useful to think about it in terms of a bifurcated process that can roughly segment the populace into two modes of preferred intuitive operation, but possibly more.

Without going into detail, both types of intuition make subconscious predictions, yet do so in markedly contrasting approaches, which may explain the root cause of arguments between a priori/a posteriori, bayesian/frequentist debates. The underlying ideologies may not necessarily be the effect of environmental upbringing as often assumed, but could instead be structurally rooted in the fundamental wiring and decision making of our cognition.

I'm sure some will disagree, but I naturally find frequentist methods rather challenging to understand, and typically intuit in a distinctly bayesian manner (which is probably less common, typically VC's tend to be good pattern matchers and skilled numeracy - aka natural frequentists). Coincidentally what PG thinks is counter-intuitive (like in this article), could seem rather intuitive to some. Likewise there are almost certainly other insights that are mundane, boring obvious and intuitive to PG, yet are highly counter-intuitive (and interesting) to others.

Of course it's all just anecdote and opinion for now and probably a controversial position, but hoping advancements in cognitive neuroscience research, would one day be able to test this empirically.

Re: Black Swan Farming

#182
Is this 10000x return that makes everything else counter intuitive a function of startups or of startups in a bubble?

Are the returns going to remain of this order over the next 20 years ? I understood that VCs rule of thumb was 10x return paid for the other 9. is this difference earlier stage, bubble or other?

Re: Black Swan Farming

#183
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slicehost is the counterexample; my understanding is that they started in a very startup-y manner. Maxed out their credit cards, tried to find angel funding in St. Louis, and got told the going terms were "We'll get 50% of the company to cosign a loan for you " so they continued to bootstrap, managed to successfully structure a pricing model such that customers pre-paid for services (allowing them to service most of…

hm. do you know where I can read more about them? or is this stuff you know personally? They did seem to grow... very quickly. My impression was that they grew much faster than linode or I. Of course, I have no numbers to back that up either way.

http://mixergy.com/slicehost-how-a-goal-setting-bootstrapper...

Re: Black Swan Farming

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why aren't you a billionaire yet and why do you need Paul?

If my project is successful, I will be a billionaire, many times over. I have no desire to do that, and really don't want the down side of being that wealthy, and didn't try to pick a project that would make so darned much money, but that's just the way my project looks. I picked a project using my Steps 1 and 2. So, in Step 1 I picked a big unsolved problem, one that nearly every Internet user, desktop to mobile, wa…

This is more venting, or a manic episode (I am not being facetious, I am reading it that way) without any sort of specifics besides the merits you are expounding about applied research without specifics in an attack like style of writing. It's very interesting for me to read as a stream of conscious, but not practical in any aspect, nor open to any debate.

Your "doing them some good" had nothing specific to merit attention towards fixing a... valuation or funding problem?

Re: Black Swan Farming

#185
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I never claimed that academic research and Ph.D.s have high average value. The "value" of these two in nearly all cases is low. But, the value in particular cases is astoundingly high, totally blows away nearly everything else. What is crucial, then, as I explained very clearly, is EVALUATING the research. Then what the "value" is in most cases is irrelevant. Instead, what is relevant and crucial is the value aft…

You're not making any sense whatsoever and your points are far from clear. For starters, as an asset class, sand hill returns are probably as high as it gets so "sucks" is definitely the wrong description. The DoD comparisons are just weird.

You are not reading and are just angry for no good reason.

And what you are saying is total nonsense.

For the venture capital asset class, average returns over the past 10 years have been poor, including on Sand Hill Road. For the returns, there are many good sources; one of these I mentioned here is an old post of Mark Suster.

Some of Suster's data shows that in the last ten years roughly half of venture partners are no longer.

Common statements are that limited partners are disappointed in the returns and that many are stopping investing in venture funds.

A few venture funds have done well and have been able to raise funds recently. The total number of venture funds able to raise a round easily now may be under 20.

For information technology venture returns, "sucks" is a fully appropriate word. But if you are a venture partner, then you and your LPs know these facts of life very well already. Also there is enough data so that most entrepreneurs know the truth, also.

The DoD evidence is rock solid and right on target: If you suppress your anger and actually read and pay attention, as I have now explained in this thread in overwhelming clarity at the level of about the fourth grade over and over and over, my point is that the DoD shows that research can yield powerful solutions to practical problems. Apparently this very simple, rock solid, overwhelmingly well supported point is just too difficult for you to understand.

To hell with this HN user ID. Mods: Vote it down to zero. Your site and your mod work SUCK. To hell with you. Use your HELL BAN tricks, etc.

Your down voting mods are chicken sh!ts who won't engage in rational discussion but just sit back, silently, and attack carefully written, helpful posts with down voting. HN is arrogant and just SUCKS.

Hell, just go ahead and delete the UID.

Users be warned: HN is run by nasty people.

Re: Black Swan Farming

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad-hominems will get you nowhere. Also you appear not to have any idea how much waste exists in Pentagon contracting. Look up the writings of Robert Higgs, Winslow Wheeler, Dina Rasor etc etc etc When DoD is throwing billions of dollars around with merry abandon of course some of it ends up used for useful projects. They use up all their money and then get their budgets bumped up automatically by the politicians. And…

You talked yourself into nonsense. On waste in DoD, sure, but not the parts I was talking about. Some of the big waste was, say, getting AC working in Iraq and now getting Diesel fuel and jet fuel to Akrapistan. And the cost of the black oil to send a destroyer across the Pacific would really set one back. > Also you appear not to have any idea how much waste exists in Pentagon contracting. Nonsense. All my early car…

But there are also some ways to make money, and I gave some rock solid ideas for how, based on research.

There has been nothing concrete out of your posts in improving evaluation of ideas / founders / research.

Re: Black Swan Farming

#187

Ah, how to use the law of large numbers and utility functions to make money!!!

You seem to be new here. Let me give you a tip: you will be hellbanned very shortly if you continue commenting on the site the way that you have been doing so far. Please read the guidelines:

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Black Swan Farming

#188
post #80

Just curious, YC people - let's say that an eccentric billionaire asked you to "invest" in things that would have the greatest impact on the world, even if they weren't profit-generating enterprises. Would you have invested in Wikipedia? Tim Berners-Lee's WorldWideWeb project? WikiLeaks? Linux? I guess I'm interested because it's not clear to me that any of the founders of these things radiate "winner" in the same wa…

If I had money to invest, I would invest in the impact.

The biggest wins have been to invest in advertising and walled-gardens. I much prefer the thought of investing in people though, that which can make the greatest difference to individuals.

I don't have money, but I do have time and skill. And my money is where my mouth is, the idea I'm working on does need to be profitable to self-sustain, but the goal I have is to change lives of individuals.

To me it doesn't matter that others don't define this as winning. I think their definition is faulty.

Re: Black Swan Farming

#189
Startup investing seems counter-intuitive only from a traditional business point of view, it makes a lot more sense if you perceive it as the business firm equivalent of the mass-media model: a few 'hits' that make up for all the rest, rising exponentially then falling precipitously, producing a (very) few classics on the way, just like the pop charts gambles taken by record companies (where sometimes the seemingly silliest song lyrics might unexpectedly draw millions of listeners).

Re: Black Swan Farming

#190

Ah, how to use the law of large numbers and utility functions to make money!!!

You seem to be new here. Let me give you a tip: you will be hellbanned very shortly if you continue commenting on the site the way that you have been doing so far. Please read the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You responded to my post about the law of large numbers and utility functions?

That is actually a good and appropriate observation.

Of course, some mods came along and down voted it. I doubt that they understand either the law of large number or utility functions. Of course, the law of large numbers is a crown jewel of 20th century probability theory, and utility functions are one of the better contributions of von Neumann.

For being HELL BANNED, sure, that is the shame of HN. I no longer care about HN. I've had it.

I long ago read the 'guidelines', and I've done nothing wrong. But HN is run by some arrogant, nasty people. To HELL with HN.

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