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Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

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Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#181

Post by throwanem »

rovingeye wrote: post #176
throwanem wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't suppose I know, but if it's an argument you want then that's actually room 12a just next door.

I can sort of understand the publishing argument, since npm doesn't solve for this at all, unlike JSR: "You publish TypeScript source, and JSR handles generating API docs, .d.ts files, and transpiling your code for cross-runtime compatibility." Not allowing it for private modules doesn't make much sense to me, though. It either forces me to use a loader, or now figure out a JS build step which I have been more than h…

The implication is that the capability is implemented to conditionally allow, which I suspect has been deliberately avoided, less because the change would require much technical effort (though it might; I don't know) than because the PR to make it offers another opportunity to keep that door nailed firmly shut.

As a past and present module author, I don't feel myself unduly burdened by the need to maintain the tooling to support the work I publish. Or present-ish, anyway; last time around it was Bower and about Node 8, and the experience these days is worlds more comfortable.

I can see why others would feel differently, but again, I'm not really here to argue preferences. If you'd like to fill your afternoon instead with an enjoyable, on-theme read, try the UNIX-HATERS Handbook: https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#182

Post by moogly »

Sammi wrote: post #65
thrown-0825 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does it have a go fmt / lint command yet?

npx prettier

I moved on to Biome (which replaces both ESLint and Prettier) and while the IDE extensions have been a bit buggy, it's much faster and has fewer dependencies. It was always a pain to set up ESLint + Prettier.

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#183

Post by MrJohz »

primering wrote: post #105
MrJohz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but these are also old features, and the TS team have stated that they will not add any more features like those, and to a certain extent regret adding them initially (particularly decorators, which iirc were added because the Angular framework wanted to use them). You can also see that these features aren't really being updated to match recent Typescript developments (parameter properties can't do true…

> because I find it's useful How useful is it exactly that you accept to not use DX improving syntax like constructor properties, enums, etc? To me, someone who uses these features _a lot_, this would be a terrible trade. Seems more like people push this out of ideology and because TS is never going to be part of node itself (since its implementation is just way too slow)

It's useful as a tool for communication and simplification. Ignoring those features, typescript is just javascript with type annotations, which makes understanding how something works easier. I've worked with a number of developers who have been confused about what's a typescript feature, and what's a javascript feature, because this boundary feels blurred (particularly when working with modern ESNext syntax that might not be implemented in browsers but is understood by typescript). Being able to say clearly: everything after a colon (and some other places) is typescript, everything else is javascript is a great way of helping people understand what's going on.

In terms of the tradeoff, I rarely, if ever, use those features in the first place. For enums, I'd rather just use string literal types, which are slightly easier to write and compose, potentially assigning them to variable names if I think that's clearer for a given use-case. For constructor properties, they don't work for private properties which is the most common property I'm writing, so I don't really see the value.

The two other features that are disabled are namespaces and modules that contain code, and `import ... =`, both of which have clearer JS alternatives.

FWIW, you can enable those features in node, although that's still behind an experimental flag. It's marginally slower (because the translation is slightly more complex than replacing types with whitespace) and it requires sourcemaps under the hood, but if you really want those features you can have them. Or you can use an alternate runtime that supports them out of the box (Deno, Bun). But even then, I think they make teaching and understanding the language more complicated and I wouldn't personally recommend them. (Assuming someone might listen to the personal recommendation of a random HN comment!)

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#185

Post by epolanski »

primering wrote: post #105
MrJohz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but these are also old features, and the TS team have stated that they will not add any more features like those, and to a certain extent regret adding them initially (particularly decorators, which iirc were added because the Angular framework wanted to use them). You can also see that these features aren't really being updated to match recent Typescript developments (parameter properties can't do true…

> because I find it's useful How useful is it exactly that you accept to not use DX improving syntax like constructor properties, enums, etc? To me, someone who uses these features _a lot_, this would be a terrible trade. Seems more like people push this out of ideology and because TS is never going to be part of node itself (since its implementation is just way too slow)

Enums are crap and unsafe use union types.

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#186

Post by [deleted] »

chamomeal wrote: post #143
bsimpson wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought TS abandoned stuff that can't just be stripped. Besides enum, what do you use that isn't strippable?

I guess decorators. Which are quite powerful but I’ve never seen them used outside of libraries/frameworks that use them (angular, certain ORMs, nestjs?) As a personal taste I don’t really like decorators that much, but it’s true that nestjs projects (which is probably a majority of new backend TS projects) will not gain anything from this release. Then again, you always set nestjs up with a template anyway that has…

[deleted]

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#187

Post by nine_k »

hmry wrote: post #77
nine_k wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of Typescript's design goals is that removing all type-related parts of the source text should yield a valid JavaScript file. A typescript compiler does not generate code (unlike, say, PureScript). You can run a typechecker (such as tsc) that check various properties of your code statically, relying on the type information. It is then erased. The same applies, say, to Python: type annotations are ignored at runti…

Agreed about TS, but Python type annotations are not ignored. They are executed as code (all type annotations are valid expressions) and the results are stored on the module/class/function object that contains the annotated variable

Python type annotations get turned into metadata which other tools may inspect at runtime, but the Python runtime itself does nothing with it. It's just well-structured comments.

In Python basically everything is executable, and so are type annotations.

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#188

Post by edem »

wredcoll wrote: post #178
edem wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i switched to python a while ago. it has batteries included. i feel so much better now that i dont have to debug all the quirks of a half-baked system.

Just wait, you'll find the python pain points at some point. Two types of languages...

What are the main pain points?

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#189

Post by MrJohz »

lifthrasiir wrote: post #44
MrJohz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but these are also old features, and the TS team have stated that they will not add any more features like those, and to a certain extent regret adding them initially (particularly decorators, which iirc were added because the Angular framework wanted to use them). You can also see that these features aren't really being updated to match recent Typescript developments (parameter properties can't do true…

> I find it's useful when my typescript source matches the generated Javascript code as much as possible. Is this that worth? In the past I was able to read past async/await desugaring generated by TypeScript, and there are several useful non-JS syntaxes that are much easier to read than that (e.g. enums). Of course it would be great if ECMAScript eventually adopts them, but that doesn't seem like a strict requiremen…

Async/await was implemented according to the ECMAScript spec - for a while it existed in typescript but not yet in browser runtimes, but it was fully specced out as a javascript feature rather than a typescript one. And when configured to emit ESNext JS files, typescript would emit the async/await calls verbatim, rather than transpiling them. After all, at that time async/await was valid, spec-compliant javascript (that hadn't yet been implemented in all browsers).

This is true for a number of features, most recently explicit resource management, that required syntax that was part of ECMAScript, supported in typescript, but not yet implemented in mainstream runtimes. In these cases, typescript is doing the same thing as Babel and converting new JS to old.

The syntaxes under discussion are ones that were implemented in typescript without an ECMAScript proposal, and typically are completely non-standard, and may well never be implemented in browsers, or if they are, be implemented completely differently. For example, the original decorators implementation was completely different to the one now being proposed, and enums could well end up going in the same direction.

This confusion about what is typescript, and what is javascript is exactly why I think avoiding the typescript-only features is a good idea. I've seen a lot of people make this mistake (and it's a very reasonable mistake to make!) and I think it's easier to explain what typescript is actually doing if you make it clear that it's only doing type-level stuff.

Re: Node.js is able to execute TypeScript files without additional configuration

#190

Post by r1290 »

hungryhobbit wrote: post #155
yahoozoo wrote: post #85

What backend framework is the go to these days? Still Express?

Next is where it's at these days in my opinion. You get a full-featured client-side React framework (the only one that supports modern React SSG), and then on top of it you get a better-organized approach to doing everything you can do with Express. And do mean everything: I run an entire Postrgraphile server through Next (and you can easily do the sme with Supabase or a similar tool)!

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