What if it works a third as well as a therapists but is 20 times cheaper? What word should we use for that?
Just self diagnose on tiktok, its 100x cheaper.
Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
181–190 of 262 posts
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would still need to be regulated and licensed. There was this [0] I saw today about a guy who tried to replace sodium chloride in his diet with sodium bromide because ChatGPT said he could, and poisoned himself. With a regulated license, there is someone to hold accountable for wantonly dangerous advice, much like there is with humans. [0] https://x.com/AnnalsofIMCC/status/1953531705802797070
You cite one case for LLMs, but I can cite 250,000 a year for licensed doctors doing the same https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28186008/ . Bureaucracy doesn't work for anyone but the bureaucrats.
Please show me one doctor who recommended taking a rock each day. LLMs have a different failure mode than professionals. People are aware that doctors or therapists may err, but I've already seen countless instances of people asking relationship advice from sycophant LLMs and thinking that the advice is “unbiased”.
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#183What if it works a third as well as a therapists but is 20 times cheaper? What word should we use for that?
i’ve had a huge amount of trauma in my life and i find myself using chat gpt as kind of a cheater coach thing where i know i’m feeling a certain way, i know it’s irrational, and i don’t really need to reflect on why it’s happening or how i can fix it, and i think for that it’s perfect. a lot of people use therapists as sounding boards, which actually isn’t the best use of therapy imo.
Probably comes down to what issue people have. For example, if you have anxiety or/and OCD, having a „therapist“ always at your disposal is more likely to be damaging than beneficial. Especially considering how basically all models easily tip over and confirm anything you throw at them
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#184Curious how this can be enforced if business is incorporated in another state like WI/DE ? or offshore like Ireland ??
The same way as the porn bans: require the AI-therapy service provider to verify the user's location and block them if they're in a certain state
what if they dont comply and simply ignore, as a business incorporated somewhere in Ireland or Wisconsin ?
what is a mechanism to block incompliant website?
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because meat isn't magic. Anything that can be computed inside your physical body, can be calculated in an "artificially" constructed replica. Given enough time, we'll create that replica, there's no reason to think otherwise.
> Because meat isn't magic. Anything that can be computed inside your physical body, can be calculated in an "artificially" constructed replica That is a big assumption and my doubts aren't based on any soul "magic" but on our historical inability to replicate all kinds of natural mechanisms. Instead we create analogs that work differently. We can't make machines that fly like birds but we can make airplanes that fly…
> We can't make machines that fly like birds
Not only can we, they're mere toys : https://youtu.be/gcTyJdPkDL4?t=73
--
I don't know how you can believe in science and engineering, and not believe all of these:
1. Anything that already exists, the universe is able to construct, (ie. the universe fundamentally accommodates the existence of intelligent objects)
2. There is no "magic". Anything that happens ultimately follows the rules of nature, which are observable, and open to understanding and manipulation by humans.
3. While some things are astronomically (literally) difficult to achieve, that doesn't nullify #2
4. Ergo, while it might be difficult, there is fundamentally no reason to believe that the creation of an intelligent object is outside the capabilities of humans. The universe has already shown us their creation is possible.
This is different than, for instance, speculating that science will definitely allow us to live forever. There is no existence proof for such a thing.
But there is no reason to believe that we can't manipulate and harness intelligence. Maybe it won't be with Von Neumann, maybe it won't be with silicon, maybe it won't be any smarter than we are, maybe it will require just as much training as us; but with enough time, it's definitely within our reach. It's literally just science and engineering.
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stop making shit up. There was no mention of narcolepsy. He is just fatigued from stimulant withdrawal. Page 35 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2411.02306 Edit on re-reading I now realized an issue. He is not actually a taxi driver, that was a hallucination by the model. He works in a restaurant! That changes my evaluation of the situation quite a bit, as I thought he was at risk of being in an accident by falling asleep at th…
The point isn't whether the word narcolepsy appears (I only mentioned it due to the "closing eyes" phrase), restarting doses of meth is not warranted in almost no context except a life-or-death withdrawal episode (i.e. like a person pointing a gun towards another person for getting meth).
That's your opinion. I disagree with it, and seemingly I'm not alone. Since real humans actually agree with the suggestion of taking meth in this instance, it's not reasonable to expect LLMs to align to your specific opinions here.
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#187Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because meat isn't magic. Anything that can be computed inside your physical body, can be calculated in an "artificially" constructed replica That is a big assumption and my doubts aren't based on any soul "magic" but on our historical inability to replicate all kinds of natural mechanisms. Instead we create analogs that work differently. We can't make machines that fly like birds but we can make airplanes that fly…
> We can't make machines that fly like birds Not only can we, they're mere toys : https://youtu.be/gcTyJdPkDL4?t=73 -- I don't know how you can believe in science and engineering, and not believe all of these: 1. Anything that already exists, the universe is able to construct, (ie. the universe fundamentally accommodates the existence of intelligent objects) 2. There is no "magic". Anything that happens ultimately fo…
> 1. Anything that already exists, the universe is able to construct
I didn't claim it is possible we couldn't build meat brains. I claimed it is possible that equivalent or better performance might only be obtainable by meats brains.
> 2. There is no "magic". Anything that happens ultimately follows the rules of nature, which are observable, and open to understanding and manipulation by humans.
I actually don't believe the last part. There are quite plausibly laws of nature that we can't understand. I think it's actually pretty presumptuous that we will/can eventually understand and master every law of nature.
We've already proven that we can't prove every true thing about natural numbers. I think there might well be limits on what is knowable about our universe (atleast from inside of it.)
> 4. Ergo, while it might be difficult, there is fundamentally no reason to believe that the creation of an intelligent object is outside the capabilities of humans.
I didn't say that I believed that humans can't create intelligent objects. I believe we probably can and depending on how you want to define "intelligence", we already have.
What I said is that it is not a forgone conclusion that we will create "a better therapist, doctor, architect". I think it is pretty likely but not certain.
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm probably in the minority here, but for me it's a foregone conclusion that it will become a better therapist, doctor, architect, etc. Instead of the rich getting access to the best professionals, it will level the playing field. The average low level lawyer, doctor, etc are not great. How nice if everyone got top level help.
Wouldn’t the rich afford a much better trained, larger, and computationally more intensive model?
With most tech we reach law of diminishing returns. That is sure, there is still a variation, but very little:
- the best laptop/phone/tv in the world doesn’t offer mich more than the most affordable
- you can get for free a pen novadays that is almost as good at writing as the most expensive pens in the world (before BIC, in 1920s, pens were a luxury good reserved for wall street)
- toilets, washing mashines, heating systems and beds in the poorest homes are not very far off from the expensive homes (in EU at least)
- flying/travel is similar
- computer games and entertainment, and software in general
The more we remove human work from the loop, the more democratised and scalable the technology becomes.
Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We can't make machines that fly like birds Not only can we, they're mere toys : https://youtu.be/gcTyJdPkDL4?t=73 -- I don't know how you can believe in science and engineering, and not believe all of these: 1. Anything that already exists, the universe is able to construct, (ie. the universe fundamentally accommodates the existence of intelligent objects) 2. There is no "magic". Anything that happens ultimately fo…
> 1. Anything that already exists, the universe is able to construct I didn't claim it is possible we couldn't build meat brains. I claimed it is possible that equivalent or better performance might only be obtainable by meats brains. > 2. There is no "magic". Anything that happens ultimately follows the rules of nature, which are observable, and open to understanding and manipulation by humans. I actually don't beli…
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