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EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

cointelegraph.com

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Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#181

Post by FinnKuhn »

okucu wrote: post #119
FinnKuhn wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to get too political, but calling the CDU/CSU liberal is pretty misleading in this context considering that they are part of the EVP (conservative) on a European level and not Renew Europe (liberal).

What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? I'm talking about the same parties in general. Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs >I don't want to get too political Do you practice self censorship like the German media?

> What has anything I said to do with the European parliament?

This whole thread is about EU politics.

> Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs

Trying to paint the greens as further right than CDU/CSU is just plain wrong by any measure. The greens are a green/social liberal party while the CDU/CSU are conservative center-right party. None of their politicians would ever argue that they are more left than the greens which is pretty obvious when looking at a quote from Friedrich Merz (German chancellor and party leader of the CDU/CSU) where he quite literally says that the greens are more left. [1]

[1] https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/merz-gruene-10... English: "In the coming weeks and months, we will once again significantly intensify the debate with the Greens and, above all, counter the impression that we are always looking to the left and saying that we absolutely must form a coalition with them at some point."

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#184

Post by bccdee »

k7sune wrote: post #157
bccdee wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be extremely easy to circumvent, too. Since the scanning runs client-side on images uploaded into the messenger, you just need an app to mangle and unmangle images. XOR the pixels in your payload with a picture of static, then do it again on the other side. It does not need to be particularly secure—the messages are still E2E encrypted so long as nothing trips the client-side scanner.

I suppose by XOR the payload the image size will multiply many times because no compression, whether lossy or lossless, will be possible.

Or transform the bytes of the compressed image file into pixels and send that. That'll be incompressible, but the file size should be similar.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#185

Post by bccdee »

loeg wrote: post #96
tolmasky wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the slightly more sophisticated position is that, regardless of the operational security that is currently employed, if you were to implement something like this, then criminals would quickly adapt to improve their operational security accordingly. Especially because "operational security" in this case is doing a lot of heavy lifting to obscure how easy it would be: just use a good E2E messenger. This is not…

Criminals aren't very smart and don't think about their actions or the consequences very much.

That's not true. You're stereotyping criminals. People who commit assault, petty robbery, public indecency, etc. are probably on the whole not brilliant. But how about fraud, embezzlement, or parking infractions?

Given that we're talking about cybercrime here, what are the odds that the criminals in question are too dumb to Google "how can i get around whatsapp image scanning"?

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#186

Post by bccdee »

koonsolo wrote: post #156
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of weakening encryption, the plan seeks to implement client-side scanning, meaning software embedded in users’ devices that inspects content before it is encrypted. And there's really no way to enforce this unless you mandate locked-down devices with attestation. Then again, that's likely the long-term plan here.

You think this is some genius scheme? These politicians have no clue what encryption, client-side scanning, embedded software, and how these would all work together to scan messages means.

They don't need to know what any of those things are. The people in the intelligence service know plenty. All the politicians need to do is give the spooks what they're asking for, in the name of national security.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#187

Post by ccorcos »

sackfield wrote: post #32

This pops up every few years, and I bet once it gets in it never goes away. It seems asymmetric that one side only has to win once to win permanently while the other side has to win constantly. Is there any mechanism to stop this in the EU and make this kind of legislation explicitly barred?

Sounds like you need a constitution.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#188

Post by jimmydddd »

zackmorris wrote: post #129
sackfield wrote: post #32

This pops up every few years, and I bet once it gets in it never goes away. It seems asymmetric that one side only has to win once to win permanently while the other side has to win constantly. Is there any mechanism to stop this in the EU and make this kind of legislation explicitly barred?

This is the same problem in the US. Legislation (that protects the environment, minorities, the ability to compete in the market, etc) that took years, even decades to get signed into law, is getting repealed today by the current administration via executive order or simple majority vote. Because sabotage is much easier than building something. Unfortunately the only answer that I know of is eternal vigilance, which…

It's amazing how much is done by executive order these days. Which means it can be instantly undone when the other party comes into office. And I assume that once an executive order is made, then the party has no interest in trying to have congress vote in a bill locking in the same issue.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#189

Post by okucu »

FinnKuhn wrote: post #181
okucu wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? I'm talking about the same parties in general. Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs >I don't want to get too political Do you practice self censorship like the German media?

> What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? This whole thread is about EU politics. > Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs Trying to paint the greens as further right than CDU/CSU is just plain wrong by any measure. The greens are a green/social liberal party while the CDU/CSU are conservative center-right party. None of their politicians wou…

The one I responded to was talking about something else.

You trust what the parties are saying rather than what they're actually doing? Is this a joke? The biggest warmongering party the greens are supposed to be left? This is tagesschau levels of propaganda.

You are talking about greens, the party that wants to deport everyone who criticizes Israel, sues everyone who insults them, and they literally warned against a "linksruck".

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#190

Post by raxxorraxor »

sackfield wrote: post #32

This pops up every few years, and I bet once it gets in it never goes away. It seems asymmetric that one side only has to win once to win permanently while the other side has to win constantly. Is there any mechanism to stop this in the EU and make this kind of legislation explicitly barred?

For me it is a sign the the EU construction does simply not work. It is an undemocratic technocracy that is easily lobbied by players pushing for this and I don't feel represented by a parliament where I don't know anyone.

They circumvent the accountability of nation states, it is a development catastrophe since people cannot have a reasonable influence on policies anymore.

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