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TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

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Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#181
post #132
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are P&W and Rolls Royce the only companies in the world capable of manufacturing high-end jet engines end-to-end?

They don't make them end to end either. Their jet engines are made up of parts supplied by thousands of suppliers.

Obviously, but I would imagine that most of the “magic” isn’t in the supplied components, but in the finished product. Otherwise reproduction would be easier.

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#182
post #13

Industrial espionage has to be totally insane to defend against these days.

I frequently wonder what steps SpaceX security has to take, given the insane geopolitical significance of reusable rockets and cheap access to orbit.

I imagine SpaceX having pretty fishbowl conference rooms for customers in the center of everything, with guest network ports just segmented off from the main but using the same hardware. Oh man that would stress me out if I was IT. And of course the ' needs to print something off and needs access to the MFCs'. No, you print it out for them, like has been discussed and agreed to and keeps with ITAR. 'No, they need access, and now. Because I'm a sales guy and I won't tell them no' but if they get into/past the MFC, it's all on IT and IT being bad at their job/security, not the sales guy that demanded they get physical access.

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked on an ITAR-controlled camera once and it was drilled into me than even allowing a non-US person to view the output images of the camera constituted an ITAR violation.

Right, which is all well and good if you're a benevolent actor, but ITAR really doesn't do anything at all to stop you from intentionally committing (corporate or actual) espionage if you want to. There should still be controls to prevent you from violating ITAR either accidentally or on purpose.

The controls are you go to jail if you get caught. At least this is what one is told in the mandatory ITAR compliance trainings. That seems to be how the law works for most crimes.

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#184
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The product I oversee at my job is something that can only be built by people who are intimately aware of the process and have a strong understanding of the underlying engineering. We could hand the full project file to a competitor and they almost certainly would not be able to build functional units. The failure points are fractal, so you need a strong intuition about what part you are installing, what qualities an…

This is a bigger issue than most people appreciate, and a huge problem for the USA. There is a specialised trade known as tool and die maker, or just die maker ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_and_die_maker ) that is fundamental to a country’s ability to create industrial capacity. So far, no automation tool has been able to replace their expertise. Without die makers, you can’t build tools that make things, yo…

Thank you for taking the time to post this. You've outlined problems that are absolutely solvable.

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#185
post #168
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bigger issue than most people appreciate, and a huge problem for the USA. There is a specialised trade known as tool and die maker, or just die maker ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_and_die_maker ) that is fundamental to a country’s ability to create industrial capacity. So far, no automation tool has been able to replace their expertise. Without die makers, you can’t build tools that make things, yo…

If the average age is 73 that's the issue right there. People are refusing to retire at 62 and make room for juniors. Then when they finally do retire (73 average seems like "dies in office" levels) there are 2 decades of missing juniors who haven't been trained in the pipeline. This is the shortcoming with most technical fields. No one is incentivized to see the big picture of the training pipeline that exists well…

The problem is that these jobs are hard and the pay is crap.

SmarterEveryDay attempted to make a grill scrubber in the US. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTGwcHQfLY

tl;dr He did it, but it went very poorly.

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while I don't doubt that such situations also exist, that wasn't the reason for any of the many "Excel abusers" I've encountered in different positions. Quite to the contrary, these people all had access to the appropriate tools, but their whole thinking was totally formatted and fixated on Excel as their go-to tool for everything: be it things better done with a database, a word processor, a diagramming program, a l…

The VBA hammer is real... it can force any screw, nail, staple into any hole you desire. Until the web version takes over, and you can no longer connect to anything real.

I doubt that the people who use Excel care enough about computers to be deterred by cloud.

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered - why people use a nation-state notion? Why not just a state or a country? USA is not a nation-state, or UK, or India, or Russia, etc. Does your question imply that none of these countries are capable of orchestrating this and only nation-states can do it?

Hard to know what OP meant, but I took it as an oblique reference to China.

Well, is China a nation-state or a multi-national state, or essentially just a country(state)? English is my third language, so I just wonder do I miss some nuance here.

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#188
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harder to pretend when speaking with colleagues that are the real deal. Also very likely to "step out of line" accidentally over time as lot of time is spent with colleagues. It's not hard to pretend to be anything for 5 minutes to someone who doesn't know anything about what you're doing.

Naively, I was assuming TSMC would still operate like TSMC, not the Taliban, and that they'd focus on doing their work, not religious performance, but I guess anything is possible! Suggesting TSMC start operating like the Taliban to protect their trade secrets seems like an obviously bad idea, though. But we don't live in a vacuum, so I guess it's all just opinion pieces.

What are we on about now? The taliban?

Re: TSMC says employees tried to steal trade secrets on iPhone 18 chip process

#189

Gee, I wonder which nation-state actor was orchestrating this...

I always wondered - why people use a nation-state notion? Why not just a state or a country? USA is not a nation-state, or UK, or India, or Russia, etc. Does your question imply that none of these countries are capable of orchestrating this and only nation-states can do it?

> I always wondered - why people use a nation-state notion?

It's a shibboleth, similar to HN favorites: "orders of magnitude" and "orthogonal". Shibboleths are often social signifiers, sociology has lots of research on why people use them

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