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So you're a manager now

scottkosman.com

181–190 of 191 posts

Re: So you're a manager now

#181
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even sure I would call my experience "management" except companies kept naming it that. What is a manager anyway? I've been in this industry for multiple decades and I honestly still have no clue. They are never willing to assert what they are working on, or what blockers they have, during standups. They aren't striking deals with clients. They aren't building the product. They demonstrate no visible functi…

I fully understand this viewpoint having been on both sides. Here are some examples: - Creating tickets. It’s very easy to scoff at this, but it’s much harder than you might expect. Business gives vague or unclear request and you have to translate that into tickets that your team can actually work on. Even when business creates their own tickets, you have to review them fix the mistakes in the assumptions that they’v…

Interesting stuff! I wouldn't say a lot of it applies to my personal experience — much of it sounds more like what I do — but understood that no two organizations (or people) are alike.

> Meetings.

This seems to be where all of their time is spent as best as I can tell as an onlooker. But what goes on in those meetings, in your experience? "I worked on meeting with Mary to deal with X so that we could Y. No blockers." doesn't make it to standup, strangely enough. Which is sad as that is the only information I'd want to know about from a standup! I already know about what the developers are doing. Their work is highly visible.

I don't mean to imply that there is no reason for those meetings, or that they are somehow easy, but I'd love to know what it is all about. One part just because I'm plain curious, one part because I wonder what information isn't making it back to me that would improve the ability to do my job, and one part because I want to know if is something I'd want to take more involvement in.

Re: So you're a manager now

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should ask yourself that last question again, and this time really think about it. Why /do/ all companies seem to have managers? (Tone clarification: I'm not approaching this in a condescending manner, but more of a "let's talk through this problem out loud and see where it gets us." So please don't take this as condescension.) One way to think about "obvious" solutions to problems, such as a "no manager"…

Yes, I take your point. But if I said "I don't understand the point of brakes. Why do all cars get made with brakes?", then as well as making your point ("look, do you really think you know better than Stellantis!?") there's also a straightforward answer which is "cars need brakes so they can stop instead of killing people." What's the "straightforward answer" case for the existence of managers? Your answer just sugg…

Sort of in the same vein as "you don't need to understand gravity to recognize that it's important," you not understanding what the answer is doesn't mean there isn't an answer and that the answer isn't important.

I don't have "the answer" (I have _an_ answer, see below), and I also don't need to know "the answer" in order to understand that the managerial class doesn't exist for shits and giggles. There's value there.

If Bezos thought getting rid of managers at Amazon would make him another half a billion dollars, you bet your ass he'd do it.

My answer? It's exactly what that group of seniorish people would do: make decisions. But the seniorish people can't make decisions all day and ALSO do the things they're senior at. You may not like that answer -- and you don't have to! -- but "making decisions" is something that needs to get done at scale without sacrificing the actual productive work that ICs do.

But again, I think you're asking a great question, and I think there's room to say "Is the current paradigm the best paradigm?" and explore other alternatives.

But the very clear answer from all research in addition to basic intuition is "As far as we know, yes."

Why? Doesn't really matter. We just know that if we didn't have managers, the world as we know it wouldn't exist. (For better or for worse!)

Re: So you're a manager now

#183

Bottom tier manager is the worst role in tech. * You are responsible for sticking to commitments that depend almost completely on other people sticking to theirs. * You're still on the hook for delivery, so if someone you assigned a subtask can't get that job done, you either have to pass it on to someone else (which often ends up harming the social dynamic of the team) or just do it yourself. Throwing an employee un…

Well at least you’re paid more

Re: So you're a manager now

#184

Bottom tier manager is the worst role in tech. * You are responsible for sticking to commitments that depend almost completely on other people sticking to theirs. * You're still on the hook for delivery, so if someone you assigned a subtask can't get that job done, you either have to pass it on to someone else (which often ends up harming the social dynamic of the team) or just do it yourself. Throwing an employee un…

> You don't have enough clout to make organizational-level changes. So process things that you see that are really inefficient, and you have some ideas how to address them? Now you've got to convince your manager and probably theirs, too, and they usually don't want to rock the boat.

As long as you are a go-to person, you have more clout than you realize. Spend your social capital while you have it and make changes. Also, making change requires allies but they don’t necessarily have to be in your direct chain of command. Lastly, to make a change in an org, just change. People will follow. Most people are not leaders, but you are. Act like it and you will see that you command far more respect than you think you do.

Re: So you're a manager now

#185
post #3

Some good advice. It’s missing one of the most difficult topics: Performance Management. Most first-time managers have already read a lot of advice about being humble, delegating, celebrating your team’s wins, and the other feel good topics. If you want to write internet advice that gets upvoted and shared you almost have to avoid the difficult conversation topics and assume that the team is full of perfect people th…

Agile Coach / Scrum Master chiming in - I switched from an engineering position to this more people-centric role, and completely agree with you. What I find fascinating about this is how predictable people become once you know the different personalities and their nuances. It helps tremendously to also be interested in getting to know people. And yes, you will encounter people that are disruptive. Usually, and I can…

> What I find fascinating about this is how predictable people become once you know the different personalities and their nuances.

curious - is there a way to learn this other than from experience?

Re: So you're a manager now

#186
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully understand this viewpoint having been on both sides. Here are some examples: - Creating tickets. It’s very easy to scoff at this, but it’s much harder than you might expect. Business gives vague or unclear request and you have to translate that into tickets that your team can actually work on. Even when business creates their own tickets, you have to review them fix the mistakes in the assumptions that they’v…

Interesting stuff! I wouldn't say a lot of it applies to my personal experience — much of it sounds more like what I do — but understood that no two organizations (or people) are alike. > Meetings. This seems to be where all of their time is spent as best as I can tell as an onlooker. But what goes on in those meetings, in your experience? "I worked on meeting with Mary to deal with X so that we could Y. No blockers.…

> But what goes on in those meetings, in your experience?

It's all over the map, but here are some examples

- Weekly planning meeting with higher-ups to discuss what their priorities are for the next few weeks

- Weekly Product Status meeting to discuss what the teams accomplished over the last week, any blockers, etc

- Standups, for a while I was running them for (and managing) 3 different teams

- Meetings with design to go over mockups and point out issues before they reach the team ("That's not possible with our current data", "that is an expensive lookup currently", etc). Let them know what is/isn't possible (or rather, isn't possible without a bunch of work, almost everything is "possible" if you have unlimited time)

- (every other week) Process improvement meeting to go over changes we might want to make to the (growing) company, re-evaluate processes we have in place, etc.

- Weekly demo meetings, though developers are in this

- Twice a week architecture meetings, though developers are in this, discuss problems we need to solve and how we want to solve them. Equal parts "present an idea to the team" and "I have a hard problem, help!"

- Monthly check-ins with my direct reports

- Weekly Planning meetings with the team, though developers are in this

- One-off meetings with individuals or small groups to discuss a plan for a feature/bug/etc (so with some developers but not all)

- PR meetings, some PRs benefit from being on a video call with the developer so they can explain their reasoning/code/etc. Sometimes it's due to the size/complexity of the PR, sometimes it's due to the person who wrote the code (who might need more guidance than others, I don't advertise this)

- Solo PR "meetings", if I don't block the time out, my schedule will fill up

- One-off meetings with business about urgent issue or new ideas they've had

- Interviews, this is temporary but currently every free minute of my day is scheduled to talk with potential new employees

- One-off meetings to help a developer with something they don't understand or need help solving. This is rarely visible to the rest of the team as I don't advertise "Johnny needed my help yesterday"

- Production issues. I'm not sure how common this is or if your manager does this but I get tapped for the vast majority of production issues due to my familiarity with the code (and having written parts or at least worked with most of it).

- HR-type meetings, to discuss an employee. These are, thankfully, rare but when it does happen there are normally multiple over a week or two

- PIP-type meetings, another things I, obviously, don't advertise. When I need to meet regularly to talk with an employee about their performance

Not listed here is the "prep time" for these meetings. Some require little/no prep but others I'm expected to present info in and so I need to collect/organize it so I'm ready to go. Things like "ticket/backlog refinement" fall into this category as well. Sure I just have a 1hr planning meeting per team but sometimes it takes me that long or longer to go through things business wants worked on, fleshing them out, asking them questions to clarify, etc.

None of this is to say "Your manager's meetings are all legit", I have no way of knowing that. Just like I have no way of knowing how my experience lines up with other people in, ostensibly, the same role. "Manager" can mean a bunch of different things.

One small thing I'll tack on, sometimes I don't share the subject/contents of meetings because I know it will be depressing/distracting/unhelpful. I don't share every whim of the business side of the company or every bug mentioned because it's not what we are currently working on and it will be a distraction. Also, sometimes I have multiple meetings in which I'm pushing back/"fighting against" a proposed path forward. There is no reason to let the rest of the team know about that since it will only anger or distract them.

Re: So you're a manager now

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agile Coach / Scrum Master chiming in - I switched from an engineering position to this more people-centric role, and completely agree with you. What I find fascinating about this is how predictable people become once you know the different personalities and their nuances. It helps tremendously to also be interested in getting to know people. And yes, you will encounter people that are disruptive. Usually, and I can…

> What I find fascinating about this is how predictable people become once you know the different personalities and their nuances. curious - is there a way to learn this other than from experience?

I haven't discovered it yet. Of course, there are certain studies and models like 16 personalities, DISC, etc. But you cannot pinpoint people to these categories easily. It's a spectrum, I guess.

Re: So you're a manager now

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of the article writes: > You’re not the player, you’re the coach. Sometimes that means strategy and big-picture thinking. Sometimes it means shielding your team from dumb shit. Sometimes it means buying someone coffee and saying, “You’re not crazy. This is hard.” Guess what good agile coaches or scrum masters are expected to do :-)

Very little of that. Agile coaches don’t deal with under performers, promo packets, retention issues, etc. Agile coaches are also not able to shield the team from dumb shit. They don’t have the power to make priority calls on what the team is doing.

I'd argue it's not my job to "shield the team". It's my job to enable the team to question "dumb shit" and put them in a position where they can discuss these matters constructively with management (or whomever).

Also - I "deal" with underperformers because my team needs to deal with them. It all comes back to "what benefits the team".

I see that there are a lot of different varieties of agile coaches out there.

Re: So you're a manager now

#189

I kind of want to call BS on this. Sure, a bad manager can crush an employee's motivation and will to work. But when an employee is crushing it, I am not sure how much of that is really because the manager "empowered" the employee - unless you mean literally just allowing them to show up and work on something of value to the company?

Heya, article author here! You're absolutely not wrong about high-performing employees, that's an entirely different area of performance management that gets ignored way too often. I've got a follow-up post coming Real Soon Now™ that hits on managing both high and low performers.

Re: So you're a manager now

#190

This was a good article but it doesn't even mention the hardest part of management: hiring and firing people. I feel like a discussion of management without those components is missing something critical. Maintaining high performing teams requires that you get really good at this. This article makes it seem like the job is really just talking to people and making sure they're motivated, but in my experience that's th…

Article author here, that's a great point. I've got a followup post coming soon about performance management (both high and low performers), but you're absolutely right, hiring and firing is such a critical part of management that also (usually) doesn't come with any training whatsoever. Great ideas for some more follow up posts, thank you!
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