Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

chicagotribune.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 284 posts

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#181

Post by bluGill »

Alive-in-2025 wrote: post #63
legitster wrote: post #21

> Eight states in the Corn Belt — Iowa, Indiana, Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri, Kansas, South Dakota and Wisconsin — restrict the size, structure and purpose of corporations that can own farmland to limit ownership by large investment funds. > More than 22% of the farmland in 12 Illinois counties with the highest rents is owned by a business entity, defined as an operation with an LLC, Inc, LTD, Co., Corp, LP or LLP…

How does a farmer who doesn't inherit land ever afford the land?

You start with a few acres - general poor land that can only grow livestock. You raise a few cows/hogs/... per year on the land but you go to work in the nearest town doing something else full time to live. In 5 years you have a reputation with the bank and some of the land paid down so you can buy another lot when it goes on sale thus expanding the farm - but you are still working full time somewhere else to get money. After 20 years of this eventually you build up enough that you can support yourself farming - much of the land is bought at yesterdays prices - but it will be many more years before you can make more than if you stayed working.

Or you marry someone who will inherit land - this is often the best way in.

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#182

Post by bluGill »

9rx wrote: post #179
bluGill wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with 80 acres is buying used tractors. They are likely hiring someone else with a combine to harvest their fields (harvest needs a lot more labor than the 80 acre farm has so when you hire a combine you get a team of 3-4 people which also includes grain carts and semi trucks to get your grain from the field to the elevator (which might be something you own and might be something town). I work for John Deere, t…

> Anyone with 80 acres is buying used tractors. You'd think, but you'd be surprised. In fact, one of the families I rent land from (aging couple who was looking to work less land) is still working around 50 of their acres themselves and they got a couple of new tractors recently. > They are likely hiring someone else with a combine to harvest their fields They even combine the crop themselves. But, to be fair, the co…

The other possibility is they have had the land for a long time and it is paid for. Payments on 80 acres of land will pay for some really nice tractors. The rational economic actor will still be going for used tractors on 80 acres, but humans are not rational. Larger farms a new tractor makes sense for various reasons.

Don't forget tax deductions. There is a reason the week between Christmas and New Year is a big on for tractor sales - your accountant suggests you want to get the down payment out now and off your books. As an accountant to explain it (I don't fully understand this)

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#183

Post by ItsMonkk »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #100
dlcarrier wrote: post #14

Most farms are not owned by farmers, most housing is not owned by tenants, most airplanes are not owned by airlines, etc., etc.. Vertical integration can have benefits, but it isn't necessary and has drawbacks. Even when vertically integrated, regulations are often written under the assumption that everything is leased, not owned, so compliance is easier if you own a company that owns an asset, instead of owning that…

Most housing is not owned by tenants? That surprises me quite a bit. Would you supply a source for that?

It's impossible to know with the data we collect. Census tracks the homeownership rate, which tracks if the house is owned by someone living in it. However if you are a tenant living in a house that someone else owns and lives in it as well, for example if you are an adult renting in your parents house, that counts as a homeowner owned home. We do not collect the tenant non-ownership rate, but it would be much higher than the inverse of the homeownership rate.

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#184

Post by 9rx »

bluGill wrote: post #182
9rx wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone with 80 acres is buying used tractors. You'd think, but you'd be surprised. In fact, one of the families I rent land from (aging couple who was looking to work less land) is still working around 50 of their acres themselves and they got a couple of new tractors recently. > They are likely hiring someone else with a combine to harvest their fields They even combine the crop themselves. But, to be fair, the co…

The other possibility is they have had the land for a long time and it is paid for. Payments on 80 acres of land will pay for some really nice tractors. The rational economic actor will still be going for used tractors on 80 acres, but humans are not rational. Larger farms a new tractor makes sense for various reasons. Don't forget tax deductions. There is a reason the week between Christmas and New Year is a big on…

> The rational economic actor will still be going for used tractors on 80 acres

A rational economic actor would sell the land. 80 acres would fetch around $2M around here pretty easily. You're not getting $2M of pure economic value of 80 acres.

But what are you going to supplant the enjoyment of being out on the farm with? No amount of money can buy a suitable replacement.

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#185

Post by dylan604 »

freeopinion wrote: post #119
ASalazarMX wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a use case where I think a current LLM shines. Ask it to summarize the important points of n papers, and slow read only the ones that pique your interest. It won't be perfect, but it will save you a ton of time while letting you focus on the things that need more attention.

I'm not anti-LLM even if the following statement sounds like it. I don't trust LLMs, even to summarize for me. I have to fact-check every single statement. For instance, if I ask ChatGPT, "Is PLA more dense than ABS?" it answers, "No, PLA is not more dense than ABS." Those are direct quotes. In the third paragraph, ChatGPT says, "So technically, PLA is denser than ABS, not less — I misspoke earlier." I find LLMs good…

A human that makes a mistake, catches it, corrects it and apologizes is someone I'd much rather interact with than someone that makes a mistake, catches it, and doubles down on the mistake that I then later discover the issue would be the person I would not be my go to source.

Mistakes happen. If they are honest mistakes, then we can deal with it. If they are deliberate mistakes, well, we can deal with that too but in a different manner. The problem that I have is answering something in a confident manner when it's really a hedge to not sound unsure. People apparently have issues with an unsure bot. I'd much rather have a response like, "I'm not positive, but I think PLA is less dense than ABS" for the wiggle room of being able to come back later with "So technically, PLA is more dense than ABS". Even if the bot doesn't figure it out, by phrasing that way, you're clued in on what to fact check

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#186

Post by ThrowawayTestr »

trallnag wrote: post #169
mattgrice wrote: post #15

If structured the right way, agricultural land has numerous tax benefits that can range based on jurisdiction from carve-outs on inheritance taxes all the way down to property tax exemptions on what could not even be considered a hobby farm (very large exurban lots)

In addition, government handouts. Also known as corporate welfare. Also known as subsidies.

Also known as protection against food insecurity.

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#187

Post by gruez »

mewse-hn wrote: post #152
os2warpman wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food isn't a ECON101 factory widget. Farm subsidies are both the single most important national security policy a nation can have, and an incredibly inexpensive yet extremely effective insurance policy.

The Omnivore's Dilemma points out that the food economy doesn't even behave like the normal economy - supply is variable due to weather (bumper crop vs famine year) but demand is inelastic, people generally eat the same amount year-to-year. How do you grow your food business if people only eat so much? One method is to increase portion sizes.

>One method is to increase portion sizes.

I thought the current thing was "shrinkflation"?

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#188

Post by dismalaf »

beambot wrote: post #176
dismalaf wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land can be financed over long periods and held forever. So a few hundred grand will pay off $5 million in about 20 years and then that's steady income forever after (as long as you keep farming).

> that's steady income forever after Let me tell you about farming... this isn't true.

Hah fair. Year to year is crazy but long term it smooths out.

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#189

Post by lithocarpus »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #88
libraryofbabel wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Farming is a terrible business. My few hundred acres (maybe worth $5M) will only churn out a few hundred grand in profit -- not even better than holding t-bills. Non-judgmental curious question: why do you keep doing it? (As opposed to selling the land and buying tbills.)

> the ick that comes with running other businesses Also non-judgmental curious question: what is this "ick" related to non-farming businesses?

Many if not most businesses involve lots of ethical decisions where you have to choose between taking advantage of people or making less money.

Depending on one's values though I'd see something similar in some modern conventional farming where the land is being degraded, but there's still the righteousness that you are feeding people so it's justified.

There are ways to farm and some other kinds of businesses too that are win win for everyone involved. They're generally not the most short term profitable. Or even in-one-lifetime profitable.

Re: Most Illinois farmland is not owned by farmers

#190

Post by jjmarr »

singleshot_ wrote: post #177
toast0 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a no brainer if you have a couple thousand dollars to spare for an estate lawyer to do some estate planning and spare your heirs probate court. What I keep hearing from experienced estate attorneys is that California probate court is onerous and worth a lot of effort to avoid, but other state's have reasonable probate; it might still be worth it to avoid probate, but it's not such a big deal. OTOH, dealing wit…

A lot of words to tell you that you should consult an estate attorney in your jurisdiction, but at least that advice was correct.

I liked hearing about California probate law and why it's a quagmire, despite not living there myself.
Post reply on HN