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The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

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Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#181
post #163
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like this is an absurd position to take when people are literally being snatched off the street and being sent to torture camps in the US. That is of course a gross misrepresentation of what is happening (and I'm being charitable here).

Then what is happening? Pretty sure we have documented cases of American citizens being arrested without a case.

The max that is happening here, assuming the poster is referring to the current administration's policy to remove undocumented aliens from the country, is that some operational mistakes unfortunately will be made since an estimated 10 million people entered the country illegally in the last four years.

It is my hope and belief that any such mistakes would be swiftly corrected, and that the undocumented people that are impacted by this policy are treated with dignity and respect, while still encouraging legal immigration into this country. Furthermore I would expect that the odds of a US citizen or otherwise legal resident to be arrested and deported to be virtually zero.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also accidentally legalized child pornography for a short period after 1969. That was unintentional though.

Wait, wait, hol' up, double take. How does one accidentally legalize child pornography?

You forget to exclude it from the law that legalize pornography. Denmark was the first country to legalize pornography, so obviously there where a bunch of, should we say "edge cases" that the lawmakers forgot to think about.

The Danish national television made a documentary, there's also a short article: https://www.dr.dk/om-dr/programmer-og-koncerter/candy-film-d... you can probably just run it through Google translate. The worst part is that it took like 10 - 11 years to fix.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#183

"the EU wants to scan your messages" implies its every member state and not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die. The EU has always been 90 days from passing mass surveliance for the last decade. Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait.

In previous EU presidencies it's only been defeated by a slim margin, in part thanks to grassroots pressure. The attitude of the governments in favor of it has been: "whatever, we'll keep trying and we'll get it eventually". So getting upset that people talk about it when it gets tabled once again is illogical and unjustifiable.

I'm confused now: is now the EU the baddie or the governments? Because these are two different entities - and not at least, also "the EU" is a group of government representatives. So folks if you're in the EU and don't like something the EU does - you do have levers, go vote, campaign, do something to move your own folks to do something on the EU level. And if you're in the US maybe better check your own backyard, I think it's on fire.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electoral college is directly elected, the president is appointed. It is the same level of indirection.

The electoral college is a rubber stamp of the popular vote (per state). The commission is selected by the member-states governments with no electoral input. You cannot be making this argument in good faith...

The member-states governments are elected by popular vote, per state, just as electors are. It is the same level of indirection, whichever way you try to reframe it.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clickbait. Many member states do support this. Much of the disagreement is on just how rights-violating the scanning should be. The situation here in Denmark is dire: nobody in the Danish media reports on it, so everybody just shrugs. I've gone out of my way to educate my coworkers and most are unaware many members of our parliament want this. The number of parties that support it outnumber those who don't.…

Denmark is very liberal in some ways but very much not in others. MitID -- digital id-- is a gateway to everything and is very much gated in terms of access; it took me months to sort out. It's a crime to not tell the state where you live, or to have too many people living in your house (I'd love to know what happens if you give birth on a "full" house -- is there a grace period, or do you have to move?). The work la…

So that's exactly how it is in Switzerland and people still say it's the best place in the world. Maybe sometimes the trust in the authorities is also warranted, right? Just keep them in check all the time, it's the only way to keep that trust - or you have this happening.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commission is appointed in back-room deals by "elected" governments which are in turn often only indirectly appointed by parliaments. From your nickname I do infer you are from Germany, where ministers are not elected and the chancellor is not elected by the voters. Instead the chancellor is elected by the Bundestag, which was elected by the voters, but only after the usual back-room deals of forming a coalition.…

Everything you say here is correct. Democracy is not a binary where if you have an election no matter how indirect then it's a "democracy™". The EU is governed by backroom deals and is extremely opaque. Adding to everything you said: there is no accountability, there is little presence of EU matters in newspapers, EU leaders hardly even attempt to communicate with their people (practically only von der Leyen or Antón…

If you don't know about EU commissioners or EU matters, then that is purely up to you.

Matter of fact, you're commenting on a news article about EU happenings right now.

If one is only the slightest bit informed, one has probably heard of Kaja Kallas, the foreign affairs commissioner or Maroš Šefčovič, the trade comissioner.

These are not some big secret names, but public figures with well-articulated positions that regularly hold press conferences.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#187
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would stop the list of hashes from being extended with hashes of copyrighted media, evidence of corruption (labelled slander or an invasion of the perpetrator's privacy) or evidence of the preceding abuses of the system themselves? Once you have an established mechanism for "fighting crime", "don't use it to fight that type of crime" is not a position that has any chance of prevailing in the political landsca…

Hashes don't really work that way. They don't actually give any high level of a photo's contents. You can't ask a hash to find all photos of a certain document or a meeting or anything like that. They really only detect exact copies, which makes them somewhat useful only for the most basic of copyright infringement (i.e. proving someone has a copy)

As far as I remember, Apple's proposal was to involve https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_hashing which is meant to sidestep this exact problem - and either way, your objection would be equally applicable to CSAM. There is no mechanism that works better for it than for copyright enforcement.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die" Not true. The truth is that Chat Control has returned several times already and the majority of the EU states were actually always for, but a blocking minority has been reached each time - barely so. Worryingly, one of the blocking minority countries used to be Germany, where privacy-minded smaller parties (Greens, FDP) are no longer in government. T…

> Fuck, I don't want to live in a China with a blue flag instead of red. This is absolutely dystopian. I think it's too late. People already showed they'd loudly support this if propagandized enough like during COVID times where the most draconian and anti constitutional of policies were enacted, literally following and lobbied by China. Unless people recognize that they did a terrible thing in supporting covid polic…

Good. Remind them of digital health passports. They screamed for it. They deserve chat monitoring.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#189

I was reflecting on the whole chat apps and protocols the other day and felt we might just have trapped ourselves artificially. If I want to casually keep in touch with a friend, I am supposed to have the following options: - SMS/RCS: no need for an app but is controlled - WhatsApp: no good to many reasons - Signal: how can you believe it is not controlled once it becomes the mandatory app in the US Gov. - Matrix: gr…

> In a way we just need MQTT servers, a client with reliable push notifications and a manual key exchange mechanism. That would be really hard for govs to target.

Go even further: Meshtastic (https://meshtastic.org/). P2P E2EE texting, primarily via LoRa mesh (a mesh of long-range low-bandwidth direct radio connections) plus MQTT backup, with surprisingly nice UX even for non-techies. You can message people directly, or create encrypted groups too.

In effect, you broadcast your message (encrypted) via LoRa (travels a couple of kilometers through apartment blocks in a big city, or up to hundreds of kilometers in open countryside with line-of-sight), and then anybody else with meshtastic rebroadcasts it, up to 3 hops by default. Works OK for local chat through normal nodes, or really well if somebody within a few kilometers has a router on a roof/big hill nearby (map of opted-into-mapping public nodes: https://meshmap.net/ - IME that's about 10% of actual nodes). Optionally uses MQTT when there's any kind of internet connection available so you can chat long-range too (there's a public MQTT server available, or you can run your own) although that's not really the main use case.

No paid intermediaries or services involved, doesn't require a cell plan or internet or anything, even if the whole world collapses, you just keep on texting (for as long as you have battery).

Requires either a tiny radio gateway (e.g. https://lilygo.cc/products/t-echo-meshtastic) that you connect through with your phone via BT, or you can get a standalone device (https://lilygo.cc/products/t-deck-plus-1) but <$100 in either case. Low-bandwidth though: only text & GPS, no pictures or audio. And obviously, this is pretty deep in the weird nerd shit so it might be a hard sell for your grandparents, and by its nature it's mostly useful for the local area chat anyway. Perfect for trips to low connectivity zones though (hiking, skiing, etc).

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#190
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're either poorly informed or are purposefully spreading misinformation then. Re being dragged off: https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2025/05/alabama-worker-says-i... Re torture: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alligator-alcatraz-flor...

If you'd stop the ad-hominems and suggestions of malice you'd more effectively make your case. I'm not going to play this game of me investing my time in random links posted to this discussion, but as a once time exception: - The first link claims a man got detained where ICE thought he had a fake ID but where he was actually a citizen. From the article: "It is not clear where the construction is located and efforts…

Regarding the first point, you are leaning heavily on euphemisms ("detained") to make your case.

Regarding the second point, you purposefully picked the least offensive part (the mosquitoes, as opposed to the starvation, the sleep deprivation, the quarters tigher than in concentration camps), to misrepresent what is happening here.

It is exactly behavioral patterns like these that make it hard to assume good faith argument.

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