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Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

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181–190 of 354 posts

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#181
post #16

I am definitely a layperson when it comes to organized sports, but from my POV it seems like competitive cycling attracts WAY more fraud/cheating/doping/etc. than many other kinds of sports. At least I have heard about it a lot more. I wonder why that is.

Relative to other sports it doesn't require much skill that can't be easily quantified. The person who can produce the most Watts over the required window is a strong favorite. I assume that doping simply makes a difference in a way it doesn't for skiing or soccer, and probably not as much as even swimming or running.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#182
post #16

I am definitely a layperson when it comes to organized sports, but from my POV it seems like competitive cycling attracts WAY more fraud/cheating/doping/etc. than many other kinds of sports. At least I have heard about it a lot more. I wonder why that is.

Relative to other sports it doesn't require much skill that can't be easily quantified. The person who can produce the most Watts over the required window is a strong favorite. I assume that doping simply makes a difference in a way it doesn't for skiing or soccer, and probably not as much as even swimming or running.

Skijumping has routine cheating with clothing that gives too much lift by being thicker than the regulations.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Betteridge's Law strikes again

According to the Wikipedia entry, the "law" does not reflect reality upon inspection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...

Cool! Seems to be citing this nice post here: http://calmerthanyouare.org/2015/03/19/betteridges-law.html

I didn't realize the biggest reason against it is that the majority of headline questions aren't yes/no.

Oh well, it's still funny to silently answer any (yes/no) headline question with "no!" before reading.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too bad LeMond sold his bike company to Trek. I have a small collection of American-made bikes. Every single one of the brands was acquired by Trek and then shut down a few years later… The LeMond is probably my favorite. Great geometry, great road feel, and a fantastic paint job. I put some new wheels on it this spring and it gives it such a rad look. Totally modern and retro at the same time. Such a bike would…

I worked in a shop that sold LeMond bikes back in the 90s. Iirc they were generally a chromolly lugged frame. At the time a lot of the high end bikes were the same. Are these not common nowadays?

100% no.

I've been on the bench for about a year, but I spent the last 15 years as a pretty intense recreational cyclist. I was in the tier that you might describe as "the craziest you get without having a racing license."

There were very few steel bikes on those rides -- say, less than 10-15%. Carbon is by far the most common material, followed by Ti for the more well-heeled folks. Most of the steel is "modern", but there are some vintage frames, too.

I rode a boutique steel frame from Ritte for a long time, but went to a lovely carbon Giant about 2 years ago after the steel frame failed, which astonished me and everyone I knew. It's honestly better in every way -- quicker, lighter, more comfortable, etc.

The vintage steel frames these groups are generally pretty high end holdovers. You leave some stuff behind by staying on a frame from the 80s or 90s, and some of those things really WILL make you slower vs. a modern hot-rod frame, but if you're strong enough you can make the trade. Weight's one, but so is gearing. Current normal for a road bike is 11 or 12 cogs in the rear, which means you have a VERY smooth progression as you accelerate. And older frame might not accommodate electronic shifting, either, which I'd be loathe to give up now.

In non-flat places it might matter that the older frames won't allow for disc brake systems, but where I lived (Houston) that didn't matter.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#185
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what people said about him when he was speaking against doping in the late 90s/early 2000s too. Remember when he was forced to issue an apology to Lance Armstrong for calling out his relationship with Dr. Ferrari(doping connoisseur)?

They were all doing doping. That stuff goes back to the 70s.

I've read that doping has been with cycling from the start. The early racers in the TdF took amphetamines to counteract their hangovers.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#186
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no stake or set opinion in this debate. But your parent poster posted an interesting-looking video, and you responded with "it means nothing" without any explanation. Care to explain?

Sure. People move their hands on bikes all the time, to get more comfortable to address a balance issue or to keep the positions moving. Seated attacks are becoming more and more popular. Pogi uses them almost exclusively these days. "A little too strong" is nonsense. Plus, bikes are xrayed. I makes no sense to carry around the weight of a motor in the off chance you might use it for a single attack. These people car…

I think the interesting part of the video is that it looks like the wheel keeps spinning with force while the bike is on the ground, or did I misunderstand why it was highlighted?

I appreciate the point about dead weight though.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports + capitalism is bad already, then add mass media and you've got a corruption pipeline of massive porportions. Sports are best left to individuals and small groups. Massive leagues and pro sports? Not at all sports, but pure entertainment capitalism.

> Sports + capitalism is bad already (...) I love a good bashing, but are you aware doping runs rampant in amateur levels of any sport or even physical activity? Why do you presume that competitions would be different?

That's why I include "massive leagues". If a city or school district is large enough to impel doping, the entire premise of sport is undermined. Why even bother, the entire enterprise becomes nothing about the sport and everything about "getting noticed, using this platform to stairstep to going pro!!!" It is just exploitative capitalism driving people insane.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does Istvan Varjas do for a living?

Now that I found out about him, and saw an [interview]( https://index.hu/video/2018/07/23/rejtett_motoros_kerekpar_b... ) he gave years ago, an old thought of mine came up. I was always thinking this was a really underserved market. Ebikes have been really in demand for a long while, but most of the offer was based on very heavy city bikes. I was always thinking that a much sportier, more efficient race ebikes would…

Specialized has their SL lines that sound like what you're looking for. But what you're asking for is beyond the current technology. Motors to produce both enough wattage and torque are heavy, and so are the batteries that supply them, and they're big. Modern road bikes are lighter and thinner than ever before

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#189
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. People move their hands on bikes all the time, to get more comfortable to address a balance issue or to keep the positions moving. Seated attacks are becoming more and more popular. Pogi uses them almost exclusively these days. "A little too strong" is nonsense. Plus, bikes are xrayed. I makes no sense to carry around the weight of a motor in the off chance you might use it for a single attack. These people car…

I think the interesting part of the video is that it looks like the wheel keeps spinning with force while the bike is on the ground, or did I misunderstand why it was highlighted? I appreciate the point about dead weight though.

Spinning objects sink a non intuitive about of force. Adam Savage's Tested has a video about it. Even small wheels can hold kilojoules

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sports + capitalism is bad already (...) I love a good bashing, but are you aware doping runs rampant in amateur levels of any sport or even physical activity? Why do you presume that competitions would be different?

That's why I include "massive leagues". If a city or school district is large enough to impel doping, the entire premise of sport is undermined. Why even bother, the entire enterprise becomes nothing about the sport and everything about "getting noticed, using this platform to stairstep to going pro!!!" It is just exploitative capitalism driving people insane.

I assume a not insignificant portion of people, especially men, are taking steroids/testosterone/human growth hormone or whatever else to augment their fitness.
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