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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#181
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odds are, you'll never experience the self-discharging issue. Having said that, I don't find a mostly-reliable firearm acceptable from a safety perspective. If I don't pull the trigger, it cannot go bang, ever, for any reason.

I’m not taking odds on an edc item which takes a lot of banging around. Glock 18 is a simple choice.

Off by one errors strike again, unless you EDC a machine pistol?

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#182

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

As someone who has never touched a firearm, I'm curious: what are you doing firing thousands of rounds? Is it target practice?

It's fairly common advice that if you are carrying for self defense then you should be firing at least 100 to 200 rounds a month at the range to maintain your skill. That's not all that difficult to do; especially with a relatively high capacity handgun like most 9mm.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#183
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odds are, you'll never experience the self-discharging issue. Having said that, I don't find a mostly-reliable firearm acceptable from a safety perspective. If I don't pull the trigger, it cannot go bang, ever, for any reason.

I’m not taking odds on an edc item which takes a lot of banging around. Glock 18 is a simple choice.

I'm still very curious why the P320 beat out the venerable Glock 17 & 19 combo in the Army's recent selection. It would seem being able to change from duty to compact is more of a gimmick than practical. I'd wager most P320's will spend their service life in exactly one configuration.

Sig does have a way of making every pistol feel like it was custom molded to your hand - but Glocks "Just Work".

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#184
post #152

Ah, Sig. On the one hand, gold (P365). On the other hand, painful, agonizing failure (P320). If you make new-design firearms in any significant volume, you will have safety recalls. I don't know how many times I've gone to another gunmaker's website to see a banner announcing a safety recall. The important thing is that you stand behind your product 100%, and Sig's not doing that, even with arguably the most prestigi…

P365 is great if it fits in your hand. But agree, denial has me pretty put off.

P365XL, no?

Although, a short grip is a feature for conceal carry, in my opinion. Even with nicer "winged" appendix holsters, the grip can still print fairly easily on fuller-sized handguns.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has never touched a firearm, I'm curious: what are you doing firing thousands of rounds? Is it target practice?

It's fairly common advice that if you are carrying for self defense then you should be firing at least 100 to 200 rounds a month at the range to maintain your skill. That's not all that difficult to do; especially with a relatively high capacity handgun like most 9mm.

For additional perspective, you can easily blow through 200+ rounds in one sitting - often under an hour, depending on what kind of drills you are doing. Many of the courses I've taken require a minimum of 300 rounds.

This is part of why "gun people" roll their eyes when the news talks about someone "hoarding thousands of rounds" - it's no where near as much as you might think, and people like to buy ammo when it's on sale (ammo's expensive!).

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#186
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One common thread is that there's virtually no time between when you realize you're going to need your sidearm and when you need it. I would be surprised if this is true for the majority of situations. I'm sure there are situations where you have very little time, but also many situations where the additional time it would take to chamber a round is negligible.

Most states prevent you from drawing without firing, because it is considered brandishing / threatening. So you either draw and fire and call the police and tell them what happened, or you don't and just... deal with the consequences of whatever happened instead.

>Most states prevent you from drawing without firing, because it is considered brandishing / threatening.

I'm not sure how many other states work this way, but in Florida, brandishing is considered non-deadly force as a matter of law[0]. So the standard for self-defense is different between brandishing and firing: deadly force like firing requires a higher degree of threat to be considered justified self-defense[1].

[0] https://reason.com/volokh/2023/05/24/loading-and-openly-carr...

[1] http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#187
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely." Yes, most people will feel quite safe in a secured facility with controlled access, simialar to court houses. Imagine living in a place where everyone has been vetted and the perimeter is secured with armed guards.

Or living in a country like Japan.

[deleted]

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#188
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely." Yes, most people will feel quite safe in a secured facility with controlled access, simialar to court houses. Imagine living in a place where everyone has been vetted and the perimeter is secured with armed guards.

Or living in a country like Japan.

Or.. very many countries that aren't the USA.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#189
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's the reason for USAF personnel to conceal carry on a USAF base? Article doesn't even suggest it was.

They weren't concealed carrying. These are Security Forces personnel guarding strategic nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. To illustrate the priority of their mission, Global Strike Command ordered that the troops normally carrying pistols be issued assault rifles in their stead.

Sure. Please understand my comment in context replying to that above it - that 'of course there was a round in the chamber because that's how you do concealed carry'.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#190
post #56
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's the reason for USAF personnel to conceal carry on a USAF base? Article doesn't even suggest it was.

Military police need them to prevent people from entering the base.

Ok, but not relevant.
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