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US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

bloomberg.com

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Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#181

Post by kazinator »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #170
kazinator wrote: post #10

This only needs to be explained to Americans who are somehow still hanging on to Donald Trump's explanation of tariffs: that they are gonna make foreigners pay. Tariffs are taxes that locals pay on stuff imported from abroad.

> Tariffs are taxes that locals pay on stuff imported from abroad Importers pay the tariff. But where the tax burden falls is more complicated. Short answer is that right now, we don't have strong evidence for where the burden is falling. Given how volatile tariffs have been, and the variety of leverage positions of American importers across industries, it will probably be years before we can suss out a signal from t…

You are right. A tax removes money from the transaction. Broadly speaking, the burden will be felt by either party in inverse proportion to how much choice they have in selecting that transaction.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#182

Post by danans »

thewileyone wrote: post #123
linotype wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the point. It’s not crazy. Tariffs are regressive taxes. Rich people buy more stuff, sure, but as a percentage of their income they net out as beneficiaries of shifting taxes from income to spending. It’s totally rational if you want to increase taxes on the bottom 80% to subsidize the top 20% (and especially top 5%).

> It’s totally rational if you want to increase taxes on the bottom 80% to subsidize the top 20% (and especially top 5%). Nothing rational about plutocracies or oligarchies.

What system of reason are you using?

To take the perspective of the oligarchs and plutocrats, if they can get away with it (avoiding the pitchforks), why isn't it rational?

That doesn't make it fair or just, or sustainable for societies or humanity, but it can be rational.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#183

Post by Marsymars »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #162
quantified wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A flat tax would be. It's been flattening in the US.

> A flat tax would be No. A flat tax is proportional [1]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-are-dif...

Also from investopedia:

> While a flat tax imposes the same tax percentage on all individuals regardless of income, many see it as a regressive tax.

> A regressive tax imposes a larger tax burden on those with lower incomes than those with higher incomes because a larger portion of a lower-income individual's total funds goes to the tax. While higher-income taxpayers pay the same percentage, their greater incomes make the financial burden easier to bear.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/flattax.asp

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#185

Post by sremani »

nobody9999 wrote: post #178
fragmede wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birds didn't read Ornithology in order to fly, sure. But you can be damn sure the engineers at Boeing cracked a textbook on the way to making the 747. Real-world experience teaches you how you survived. Education teaches you how others failed. You need both to avoid old mistakes and make new ones. It’s not about credential hustling, it’s about having more tools in the toolbox.

>It’s not about credential hustling, it’s about having more tools in the toolbox. Yes. However, there's a strain of anti-intellectualism in the US that denigrates knowledge and learning, as Isaac Asimov observed: "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'"[0…

The academic fraud in US is at its peak. Harvard President was caught red handed plagiarizing. Many scientific papers are not reproducible and more than 50% in some cases.

Most academics are sophist. Most universities practice scientism instead of science.

Erudition has been replaced with test taking and sophistry.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#186

Post by SauciestGNU »

sremani wrote: post #185
nobody9999 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s not about credential hustling, it’s about having more tools in the toolbox. Yes. However, there's a strain of anti-intellectualism in the US that denigrates knowledge and learning, as Isaac Asimov observed: "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'"[0…

The academic fraud in US is at its peak. Harvard President was caught red handed plagiarizing. Many scientific papers are not reproducible and more than 50% in some cases. Most academics are sophist. Most universities practice scientism instead of science. Erudition has been replaced with test taking and sophistry.

These are a lot of allegations to be making against the entire concept of higher education without citing any evidence.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#187

Post by lexarflash8g »

tuatoru wrote: post #53

In my trade economics textbook years ago it was stated that the cleared customs cost of an imported good is no more than 30% of its final consumer price, and more typically 10%. The rest is inland logistics, retail costs, and marketing. Further to that, 80% of the economy is services or otherwise has nothing to do with imports. Tariffs are not affecting haircuts or yoga classes or bank fees. Seems to me like tariffs…

The biggest costs for businesses are labor costs and capex. So indirectly higher prices (inflation caused by tariffs) will demand higher wages for workers and cause higher prices for consumers for services seemingly unimpacted by tariffs.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#189

Post by water9 »

vaidhy wrote: post #42
water9 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A tariff across the board is same as a sales tax (rather a value added tax, as it is dependent on the value of goods). I would love to understand why you think it is punitive for the ultra rich.

because tariffs only raised the prices of goods that can’t be bought anywhere else. The thing is America can make pretty much everything and by doing so it forces more American labor, which is more expensive for the ultra rich, who owned the companies that the laborers work for. The biggest factor, however, is that it impacts the velocity of money. The hundred dollars that you spend on an American business goes to another American and the cycle continues in America enriching everybody instead of immediately fleeing overseas, which just access a devaluation of the currency

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#190

Post by david-gpu »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #173
david-gpu wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tom Scott provided an excellent explanation of why electronic voting is a terrible idea. Original: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI Follow-up: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs

Haven't watched them (yet), but I don't think it's because of the electronic side of things, but more the closed source, black-box nature of the specific devices. It would be possible to design a reasonably secure, open source voting system that would allow voters to validate their votes.

Have you had a chance to watch them now? The videos explain why electronic vote counting itself is the problem, not the closed-source black-box nature of any particular devices.
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