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Let Kids Be Loud

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Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#181

Post by moron4hire »

taeric wrote: post #169
moron4hire wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ice cream trucks are a weaponized guilty trip against parents. The kids whine and complain about wanting ice cream and I'm already having a hard enough time modeling good food habits for them. If it were once a month I wouldn't mind, but it's been every day for the last month. Like, dude, nobody needs ice cream that much. Please stop starting an argument in my house. Incidentally, we just replaced all the windows in…

What? If you can't tell your kids no without feeling guilty, it actually sounds like you need more places to tell your kids no? If they are whining about it, set the expectation that whining and not accepting a no is, itself, unacceptable? This one is an odd area where I would think budgeting would be a good lesson. Set a budget aside for how much they can spend per day and per month on ice cream. If they have the fu…

Instead, how about you just not assume you can tell what is going on in someone's house based off of your obviously limited experience with children and one post on an internet message board.

I really don't appreciate your reply. It comes off as assuming that I'm basically an idiot. "Oh, just tell the children no!" Yeah, that doesn't really work when you have highly intelligent children you've been raising to be rational, thinking agents. They may not be developed enough to value long-term health issues over short-term pleasure gains yet, but they certainly are skeptical enough to call out fiat answers as bullshit. I'm actually rather proud my children argue with me so much, despite how exhausting it can be.

Hence me targeting my ire at the damn ice cream truck. It's not my children's fault they want ice cream (they are children) or that they are elementary school lawyers (I have certainly encouraged it, much to my in-laws' ire). It is the ice cream truck operator's fault for employing marketing tactics aimed directly at children. I keep my children off of cable TV and pay for streaming subscriptions to keep them away from completely unadulterated junk until they have brains developed enough to see through it, but this guy injects it out of my control.

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#182

Post by reverendsteveii »

ysavir wrote: post #47
johnfn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because he was trying to make small talk and you insulted his profession?

I've never seen a carpenter use a lawnmower on the job. Seems unwieldy to drag up a ladder. On a more serious note, most carpentry tools aren't that bad in terms of noise. They can get loud, but they tend to be momentary, getting a cut done, and back to silence. It's the landscaping companies that are running powered tools right up next to people's houses for 30-40 minutes at a time that are the problem. And by the t…

>Don't serve a dish you wouldn't want to eat.

BRB, off to the tattoo shop

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#183

Post by taeric »

moron4hire wrote: post #181
taeric wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? If you can't tell your kids no without feeling guilty, it actually sounds like you need more places to tell your kids no? If they are whining about it, set the expectation that whining and not accepting a no is, itself, unacceptable? This one is an odd area where I would think budgeting would be a good lesson. Set a budget aside for how much they can spend per day and per month on ice cream. If they have the fu…

Instead, how about you just not assume you can tell what is going on in someone's house based off of your obviously limited experience with children and one post on an internet message board. I really don't appreciate your reply. It comes off as assuming that I'm basically an idiot. "Oh, just tell the children no!" Yeah, that doesn't really work when you have highly intelligent children you've been raising to be rati…

I'm sympathetic. Apologetic, even. I can sadly see an easy way to read the tone of my reply as overly condescending. But, to counter with the assumption that I have limited experience with kids is not helping the discourse.

It was specifically the use of the words "guilty" and "whining" that struck me as wrong there. I could see wanting to avoid seeing disappointment. But I don't consider that guilt. And I'm pretty strict on my kids when they start whining.

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#184

Post by schwartzworld »

tstrimple wrote: post #180
schwartzworld wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like someone who either doesn’t have kids, or at least has easier ones than mine. You think you’re just going to explain to a four year old the rules about ice cream and they’ll just be like “you’re right daddy. I forgot we had ice cream from the truck yesterday. I’ll grab some carrot sticks instead”? It’s not really ethical to market that aggressively to kids, because kids just want. All the time they want. M…

> You think you’re just going to explain to a four year old the rules about ice cream and they’ll just be like “you’re right daddy. I forgot we had ice cream from the truck yesterday. I’ll grab some carrot sticks instead”? If provided with consistency, yes that's exactly what happens. I've raised three kids who have not had repeated meltdowns over hearing an ice cream truck.

> I've raised three kids who have not had repeated meltdowns

Mazel tov. Unfortunately for parents who aren't you, the act of providing the "consistency" you're advocating for, often DOES require dealing with repeated meltdowns, or even just maddeningly repetitive questions of "why not". Children are born wild animals (not yours, of course), and raising them is the act of civilizing them.

If there's one thing that annoys me about other parents, its seeing or hearing about someone dealing with a difficulty that your kids didn't have, and then patting yourself on the back for being a better parent. Every time you explain something to your kids, they just got it and stopped bothering you about it? Trust me when I say, you are in the minority.

> meltdowns over hearing an ice cream truck

I know for a fact, it just wasn't an issue when I was a kid, or even in our neighborhood until this year, when the trucks started parking on our street after school. For many children, that is a time of the day when they are exhausted and unlikely to be reasoned with. Maybe it's a sign their parents are "inconsistent" or whatever, but I maintain that there is a difference between a truck stopping by once every hour or 4-5 times per hour, and also a difference between an ice cream truck at the park vs stopping on residential streets one by one every day. There's no other business that works this way, it's not like they have some fundamental right, and that's not even talking about the noise pollution aspect.

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#185

Post by pavel_lishin »

bitwize wrote: post #86
pavel_lishin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our local ice cream truck plays a very annoying jingle, coupled with a woman's voice saying "Hello?" in an obnoxious way. I haven't complained, because I'm not that kind of asshole, but something about that voice clip feels like stubbing my toe over and over again. If it were a regular jingle, I'd have no problem. Perhaps one that could be turned down so you don't hear it from halfway across town.

Was it this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BF88VYRvE The "hello" is bizarre. It's like something a weapon AI from Metal Gear Solid would do to flush out its enemy. The tune is also weird. It's not a recognizable folk or children's tune, and it sounds vaguely Japanese, like background music from a Sega Pico game. If I heard an ice cream truck playing this come down my street, I'd think I was in an episode of B…

Fuck me, that's it.

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#186

Post by burnt-resistor »

EGreg wrote: post #124
burnt-resistor wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have under-diagnosed ADHD because my father was a Fox News disciple, science-hating, arrogant bigot who believed ADHD was a "conspiracy" of anti-male leftists.

I don't know about your particular situation, but I'm speaking systemically, and about large trends and socio-economic realities that affect people. But having said that, I'd be very interested to hear what you think the consequences of the under-diagnosis were, realistically. As far as anti-science, I think people on the left and right of the political spectrum are anti-science, at least to the same degree that term…

> I don't know about your particular situation, but I'm speaking systemically, and about large trends and socio-economic realities that affect people.

You're minimizing and trivializing my situation and opinion as invalid.

> But having said that, I'd be very interested to hear what you think the consequences of the under-diagnosis were, realistically.

Well, being called "weird" and routinely dissed and dismissed as some sort of innate character flaw.

> As far as anti-science, I think people on the left and right of the political spectrum are anti-science, at least to the same degree that term is thrown around.

I'm not familiar with many or hardly anyone (except crazies) on the left being anti-science. What's your evidence for this?

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#187

Post by loco5niner »

taeric wrote: post #172
loco5niner wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, I've got young kids and there are so many battles. I don't need more battles, please. Especially artificial battles purposefully created by intrusive marketing jerks.

Don't make it a battle, is my point? Give them something they can control, if that helps. But, if they can't take a "no" then that is a problem. And not one to be fixed by just avoiding it. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for avoiding unnecessary conflict. And a lot of conflict avoidance with kids is to not let them turn it into a conflict. You said no, you didn't start a fight.

Call it a battle, call it just saying no. Either way, it's a jerk blasting music in a place they shouldn't. Disturbing peace and quiet, and forcing parents deal with yet another thing when they just want to take their kids to the park.

My kids are 2,3, and 4. No works just fine for now, and we are laying the foundations for budgeting.

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#188

Post by moron4hire »

loco5niner wrote: post #187
taeric wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't make it a battle, is my point? Give them something they can control, if that helps. But, if they can't take a "no" then that is a problem. And not one to be fixed by just avoiding it. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for avoiding unnecessary conflict. And a lot of conflict avoidance with kids is to not let them turn it into a conflict. You said no, you didn't start a fight.

Call it a battle, call it just saying no. Either way, it's a jerk blasting music in a place they shouldn't. Disturbing peace and quiet, and forcing parents deal with yet another thing when they just want to take their kids to the park. My kids are 2,3, and 4. No works just fine for now, and we are laying the foundations for budgeting.

It's not even good music.

Not even Doom music!

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#189

Post by southernplaces7 »

schwartzworld wrote: post #163
southernplaces7 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or these parents could, you know, learn to create limits and rules for their kids and teach them to respect those, instead of blaming the ice cream truck that spends a few minutes outside at a good time for sales because the parents can't get a grip on something so minor. That guy is trying to make a living, and the inconvenience is tiny for any one area where he spends barely any time. A lot of the so-called Karen c…

Spoken like someone who either doesn’t have kids, or at least has easier ones than mine. You think you’re just going to explain to a four year old the rules about ice cream and they’ll just be like “you’re right daddy. I forgot we had ice cream from the truck yesterday. I’ll grab some carrot sticks instead”? It’s not really ethical to market that aggressively to kids, because kids just want. All the time they want. M…

>Spoken like someone who either doesn’t have kids, or at least has easier ones than mine.

I do actually and in particular a little one with autism, making part of the process for educating on certain things more difficult than average, but despite being far from parent of the year, I manage and there are things that work.

>You think you’re just going to explain to a four year old the rules about ice cream and they’ll just be like “you’re right daddy. I forgot we had ice cream from the truck yesterday. I’ll grab some carrot sticks instead”?

Well, yeah. That's what parenting is partly about. Establish limits or conduct through repeated insistence on certain rules and lessons to be learned learned, instead of trying to make complaints against others causing a minor inconvenience with their own source of making a living or food choices you don't seem to like.

Parenting isn't easy and each case is different, but if something as minor as a few minutes of ice cream truck marketing is too much to handle with your kids, blaming others isn't your solution to that problem.

And please, the whole ethics thing you describe is just absurd in this context. A jingling ice cream truck, which kids love and which hardly sells something terrible or deceptive, is far from the kind of manipulative marketing you're contriving here. It's just a basic and basically harmless reality: Kids love ice cream, and there's nothing wrong with someone selling a bit of it to them. You're creating an ethical knot that doesn't have any good reason for existing in a normal world.

Example: Every time I take mine home from school, we pass by a Dairy Queen that's on the route home. Oops, and guess what gets asked for each day that this happens? Some days I say sure, and we go get a cone or blizzard. Other days, it's a firm no, and that's that. Repeat insistence made this work out okay. And I don't blame the DQ for anything, even though this particular branch happens to also use music to market its very visible presence.

>Here’s a better question before you call me a Karen: given that most people have freezers, who exactly benefits from daily ice cream truck visits? Not the parents, for reasons above. The kids find it frustrating too. The fact that they had ice cream yesterday usually doesn’t ease their disappointment.

Totally subjective opinions of your own, and in no way justifying getting so annoyed that you want to ban these things, as you seem to. Again, how about not converting your personal dislikes of minor things into trying to shut those things down.

Re: Let Kids Be Loud

#190

Post by southernplaces7 »

stirfish wrote: post #162
southernplaces7 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second this. It's not like us smokers, or at least most of us, are sitting there hating every minute and aspect of having a smoke but unable to stop. We maybe can't stop, sure, but it's also just wonderful while we're doing it.

I've found that I wanted to smoke long after I stopped enjoying smoking.

Dealing with the worst (or is it maybe best?) of both worlds still. I both want to smoke and enjoy it too damn much, even though a little background alarm in my inner brain blares for much of the day reminding me that this is a potential death sentence I just keep playing with so much..
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