[flagged]
Pretty sure the various polling in Israel has shown that the majority of the population do not think there are innocent civilians in Gaza.
IMO Netanyahu changing won’t make this go away.
IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
181–190 of 1001 posts
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#182I guess the Israeli government's original plan to arm and support drug gangs and literally ISIS (euphemistically called 'clans') as "aid security" wasn't working out? Especially after it was revealed said "security" was stealing and reselling the food aid under the protection of IDF while the Israeli govt. and media blamed the looting on Hamas. And after the Israeli opposition leader exposed the whole charade and Net…
To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? "The basis for Lieberman’s allegation of ties to IS was unclear." It is easy to throw dirt and hope something sticks, but the main thing speaking against his group seems Netanjahu's support in my opinion. But otherwise I don't see the scandal so much here. Especially not compared to…
Well, Israel could have worked with the UN… it’s not the like choices are ONLY Hamas or Drug Dealers.
Unless, of course, delivering aid is not actually your intent.
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#183As a westerner, I feel ashamed that my country is Isreal's ally. It makes me guilty by association because the western world is letting Israel commit thoses atrocities.
Worse, we are helping them when they need it, and closing our eyes when they don't want us to watch.
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#184If we look at history, do the oppressed always become oppressors?
No. Many times the oppressed simply cease to exist (by assimilation, assassination, or other means).
Neanderthals aren’t going to become oppressors.
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#185The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. -- Thucydidus
It is descriptive, but not prescriptive. If neither side can agree on peace, if neither side has objectives which the other will accept, if neither side is willing to compromise; What other outcome is possible in terms of realpolitik? It is upsetting to observe. We all want better for humanity.
There have been cases in the past where an external strong power has been able to suppress both sides but it has to be done for generations until the reasons are lost to time.
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. Israel got in trouble with ICJ court, because of quotes from top government officials. Government of Israel was very specific what they will do to Gaza! This was even full scale bombing started! Trying to reinterpret this as a problem of "military discipline", and "soldiers are victim as well" is just another level of cynicism!
> The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. It's happened, many times. Usually this doesn't make front-page news, but soldiers that break the law are sometimes held accountable. Not nearly enough, and I think it should be far more publicized as a deterrent effect (the fact that it isn't is a pretty big indictment of the current government). But it's certainly not laughable.
Who is gonna arrest Bibi?
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#187Why though, what does it achieve? Do they want to make sure that there will be terrorists / freedom fighters in the future so that they have a reason not to negotiate? Because they expect to "win" if violence continues?
You can't kill 2.1 million people by bombing them. That's why Israel has systematically taken out every hospital in Gaza: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdd25d9vp2qo Has blocked and sabotaged aid at every turn, including bombing UN food trucks: https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/01/1158746 And when allied countries got too uneasy about them just blocking all aid trucks at the border, they set up their own aid organ…
[flagged]
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#188[flagged]
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? "The basis for Lieberman’s allegation of ties to IS was unclear." It is easy to throw dirt and hope something sticks, but the main thing speaking against his group seems Netanjahu's support in my opinion. But otherwise I don't see the scandal so much here. Especially not compared to…
> I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists Netanyahu prefers Hamas, he was propping them up prior to the current battles, according to the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... Also, if, as in the recent New York City mayoral debate, US politicians are supposed to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, which it recognizes itself as, then I don't see the big deal over Palesti…
"he was propping them up prior to the current battles"
Those words indicate something different, than allowing quatari money to reach the civilian part of Hamas government as part of a temporary peace deal. Because that sounds actually reasonable to me.
Now there is indeed more, like this:
"Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who is now Mr. Netanyahu’s finance minister, put it bluntly in 2015, the year he was elected to Parliament.
“The Palestinian Authority is a burden,” he said. “Hamas is an asset.”"
But those words came without context (just a youtube video, that I won't watch right now).
Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites
#190I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…
I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly).
As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood experience terror attacks themselves. That this upbringing doesn't exactly make you want to engage with the other side is psychologically understandable.
(I'm imaging this as the universal experience of all Jewish Israelis, religious or secular, left or right. I'm excluding the religious and Zionist-ideological angles here, because those are a whole different matter once again)
What I absolutely cannot understand is the behavior of our states. We're pretending to be neutral mediators who want nothing more than to end the conflict, yet in reality, we're doing everything to keep the conflict going. We're fully subscribed to Zionist narrative of an exclusive Israeli right to the land (the justifications ranging from ostensibly antifascist to openly religious) and we're even throwing our own values about universal human rights and national sovereignty under the bus to follow the narrative.
If the messianic and dehumanizing tendencies of Israelis are answered by nothing else than full support and encouragement of their allies, I don't find it exactly surprising that they will grow.