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The Hollow Men of Hims

alexkesin.com

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Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#181

Post by jjcob »

sokoloff wrote: post #177
jjcob wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How people justify paying $1000 for probably less than 15 minutes of work is beyond me.

That included lab work, talking to the front desk people, the nurse who took the blood, the GP, the drivers, the janitors, the record-keepers, the lab techs, and the calibration work on equipment and who knows who else. That is way, way more than 15 minutes of work.

I recently got a physical exam, including ultra sound, two urine samples, and bloodwork, at a private doctor in Austria and it cost 150€. You Americans are crazy.

I'm not sure how a physical would be more than 15 minutes of work. Lab techs? Standard blood tests are all automated, the most complicated part is putting the stickers on the vials. Yes, someone needs to calibrate the machine, but the machine processes 1000s of samples per day. I just checked, the price for a standard blood panel at a local lab is 14€. It's really not a complicated procedure.

Drivers? Janitors? What the hell are you paying those guys to justify a $1000 bill? And you really don't need to hire a driver to get a box of samples to the lab at the end of the day.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#182

Post by wakawaka28 »

scifi wrote: post #4

The writing is hard to engage with—possibly trying to be funny, but it comes off as overly antagonistic. Phrases like “—presumably in a conference room with aggressively modern furniture—” feel distracting and undermine the point.

It IS overly antagonistic. Maybe this stuff is overpriced but I think there is a need in the market. Lots of medication is protected by patents and overpriced. Doctors also gatekeep a lot of basic medications like Viagra. Third world countries are not nearly as uptight about medication, and probably sell Viagra and such as OTC medications. Perhaps the prescription system in the US can detect drug interactions, but for something like that there is probably little benefit to having a doctor in the loop. As for the quality of the medication, that could be debated. But it is quite possibly made at the same factories as the prescription stuff.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#183

Post by wakawaka28 »

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #132

The attitude in this article is suffocating. I’m 40, healthy, and picked up cheap generic Cialis for the hell of it with no shame, no crisis. It flipped my sex life on its head, instantly. The real scandal is how cheap, safe, and transformative this stuff is, and yet the medical world acts like you’re doing something dangerous by just wanting better sex. It’s not a problem. It’s the most fun I’ve had in years.

They have to make it sound overly serious, because if it wasn't then you might question why you must go to a doctor or why the prices are (or were) high. When a new version comes on the market, they will conveniently find lots of negative side effects to make you take the newer and more expensive one.

I had to laugh at the gas station sex pill thing. In other countries not only do they have the gas station pills with Viagra in them, but they have a lot of basic "prescription" meds for sale over the counter at the pharmacy.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#184

Post by wakawaka28 »

CSMastermind wrote: post #125
alphazard wrote: post #28

Given the healthcare bureaucracy in America, it's hard to find anything for the consumer to be mad about here other than the quality of the medications. The intended audience of this article must be pharma and healthcare investors, not consumers. As with most products, companies need a way to make promises to consumers about what's in the products. The only way the consumers will believe those promises is if the cons…

I see a lot of complaints about "the healthcare bureaucracy in America". And I don't doubt that it exists. But I will say the limited number of times I've needed to interact with the system it was surprisingly cheap and downright pleasant. The only negative experiences I've had is interacting with government run health systems (the VA).

Doctor visits usually aren't so bad. But if you ever go to the ER or have to do something major like stay in the hospital, you will be surprised how expensive that gets.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#185

Post by gsf_emergency_2 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #91
jackdeansmith wrote: post #7

>The real tragedy is not that Hims exists, but that it works so perfectly. Every day, thousands of people choose their compounded weight-loss drugs over FDA-approved alternatives, their combination ED pills over established single-ingredient treatments, their algorithmic consultations over actual medical care. They make these choices not because the products are better, but because the entire experience has been opti…

Really? I wanted to try Cialis, primarily for my enlarged prostrate but also for the erection effects. I asked my primary care doctor, that was a $20 copayment, I fill it my local pharmacy and it costs about a $5 copayment for a month’s supply. It’s a big practice where I might have to wait a long time if I want to see the head doctor but if I don’t care who I see I can usually get in pretty quick and they do a good…

>there are legitimate reasons to think institutions are illegitimate but I think there’s something self-perpetuating about distrust, people find meaning in it.

The lack of institutional self-awareness is why it's not especially mental to find most humans more trustworthy than any institution. There's a bit of grandma's wisdom in not worrying about Kennedy or being a fan of Luigi.. then there are borderline cases like Shkreli or the CEO of UHC-- they seem to have the non-sentience of the upper-percentile institution (which btw includes almost every place of higher learning in the US, exceptions to be investigated for their unusual processes..)

I suspect the Ben Franklin thought of Congress as a bunch of his peers & not an institution (placeholder for one of PG's underworked cluster of ideas around informality)

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#187

Post by Der_Einzige »

pasquinelli wrote: post #118
nradov wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have shown that patient satisfaction scores are highly correlated with whether the doctor writes a prescription. When patients leave with a prescription then they feel like they got their money's worth, regardless of whether they really need it.

a lot of actual conditions are actually treated with actual perscription drugs.

And even if it didn’t treat something now, it can treat things later

For example, a lot of asymptomatic STDs get accidentally cured by people taking antibiotics for unrelated reasons. Less paternalistic countries let people buy very significant drugs over the counter.

Being able to rule out that a simple infection is viral instead of bacterial is a huge boon. Doctors who want to cry about risk of superbugs (while eating McDonald’s during their break) can shove their opinion alongside side their antibiotic doused meat slurry straight down their pie hole.

Every nice pain killer I get I keep for emergencies. You never know when you’ll actually hurt yourself and be very happy to have some extra Vicodin.

Paternialism in medicine has been destructive for the human race and it has led to a lot of very very negative outcomes.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#188

Post by Der_Einzige »

jjcob wrote: post #181
sokoloff wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That included lab work, talking to the front desk people, the nurse who took the blood, the GP, the drivers, the janitors, the record-keepers, the lab techs, and the calibration work on equipment and who knows who else. That is way, way more than 15 minutes of work.

I recently got a physical exam, including ultra sound, two urine samples, and bloodwork, at a private doctor in Austria and it cost 150€. You Americans are crazy. I'm not sure how a physical would be more than 15 minutes of work. Lab techs? Standard blood tests are all automated, the most complicated part is putting the stickers on the vials. Yes, someone needs to calibrate the machine, but the machine processes 1000…

Americans are so much more fat and unhealthy than aussies. That’s the primary reason why it’s so much cheaper in Australia.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#189

Post by jeremy151 »

spacecadet wrote: post #176
jeremy151 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want safe and really high quality medical care you should absolutely have a personal physician you have a personal relationship with, who understands your lifestyle, your risk factors for side effects, and your medical needs deeply. How many Americans have that? Maybe a few dozen? A bit of a tangent: I have this here in the US, through a model called Direct Primary Care. I pay $50/mo for a single provider, u…

Im sorry that has been your experience. I am too on a patient of a doctor who belongs to a "large health system/insurance system provided by my employer with no choice". I have never once discussed billing. Every visit, while short 10-15 minutes, is focused on my health and if I asked questions, can extend to 30+ or more... really depends on my questions. I have never needed an hour with a GP, maybe a specialist.

I should clarify: the billing talk would come out when talking about options. “Let’s try X because insurance will need to see that we tried it before we try Y.” I don’t blame the provider. Navigating insurance still comes up with my direct primary care doc, but it’s not most of the visit. The real value I see is a willingness to take the whole picture into account (not just symptom -> med/specialist) and teach me about how things work and why. I have some complexity in my history for which this helps a lot.

Regarding the patient load discussion elsewhere, our entire family uses this doctor, we’re in for $200/mo but if we added up the interaction time even with me (a more complicated customer) it’s maybe 5 hours a year + some text communications with the MA / prescription wrangling. Their model seems to be all about effective scaling, I hope it is worth it for them, because my experience is vastly improved.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#190

Post by Der_Einzige »

ryandrake wrote: post #167
binarymax wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible for both you and the article to be right. The system sucks, but Hims are also terrible, and medical care should not be like Amazon prime.

Yea the US healthcare system is truly, truly awful, but that does not justify a turn to supplements, quackery, faith healers and witch doctors. The fact that people are turning towards these things should be a wake up call to the medical system, but then again the medical system misses wake up calls over and over…

Ban insurance coverage for the quack bullshit like chiropractors, most forms of physical therapy , cupping, acupuncture, etc first.

If you’re not willing to do that than don’t try to take a holier than thou attitude against the supplement crowd. At least fish oil actually does help a tiny bit. Certainly more effective than 99.99% of adjustments.

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