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U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

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Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#181

Post by spacecadet »

drjolly wrote: post #16

I think this is pretty consistent with the old school 1950s views of the current administration. Companies can prioritize profits over people again. Yeah, dump in the rivers, dump in the woods, just drive around in circles dumping in an empty lot. You don’t need masks- give everyone cancer and blow some shit up, maybe get some acid burns. Super-fund sites? When was the last one we had anyway- we need more of ‘em- lot…

LOL Super-fund site? You mean private equity opportunity for a housing development!

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#183

Post by garte »

monkeyelite wrote: post #153
ordu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes I don’t believe in unbiased sources. I believe in multiple perspectives revealing aspects of the truth. It is just metaphysics. I like it also, but it is impractical. I find it useful to train my mind to see things from different angles, but it is useless to talk about concrete things. Can you find examples of a biased reports on CSB's youtube channel? If not, it is a good example of uselessness of metaphysics.…

> It is just metaphysics I would call it having a baseline understanding of organizations and media. > Can you find examples of a biased reports on CSB's youtube channel? Yes? Can you not? The top video in this thread, “safety pays off“ highlights their successes and does not discuss their failures or costs. So yes that video was designed to make their organization appear in the best light possible.

So you would subtract their failures from their successes and make some sort of calculation about its usefulness from that?

The world doesn't work like that. Objectively, it doesn't.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#184

Post by garte »

userbinator wrote: post #33
drjolly wrote: post #16

I think this is pretty consistent with the old school 1950s views of the current administration. Companies can prioritize profits over people again. Yeah, dump in the rivers, dump in the woods, just drive around in circles dumping in an empty lot. You don’t need masks- give everyone cancer and blow some shit up, maybe get some acid burns. Super-fund sites? When was the last one we had anyway- we need more of ‘em- lot…

[flagged]

Biden actually tried that and bringing the country forward at the same time. It didn't pass and Republicans decried it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal

Now they're going back 70 years instead of moving forward. Big brains there.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#185

Post by ourmandave »

hliyan wrote: post #126

I think we will soon have to confront serious, real world proof that an unregulated free market is not ultimately self-regulating. Control systems without upper bounds (e.g. shareholder value / profit maximization ) are prone to feedback loops and oscillations. And an oscillating system cannot be judged in its entirety during an upward cycle alone (20th century). Going one level of abstraction higher: there is no evi…

Laws and regulations are part of the free market system.

I thought we've known since well before the 1952 Cuyahoga River fire that sparked the formation of the EPA.

Although TBF, there's never been a lot of demand for literal burning rivers.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#186

Post by fireflash38 »

monkeyelite wrote: post #109
kurikuri wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuance is not always a good thing. This type of nuance doesn’t forward the discussion in any way and, in this case, muddies the waters and leads to some odd implications. Sure, we can say there is no objective source of truth and chastise the author for using that word, but the term objective in this case has meaning that the author is trying to articulate… most likely that there is some overtly unbiased information…

> there is some overtly unbiased information source, in opposition to the information sourced from the company which has obvious incentives. Yes I don’t believe in unbiased sources. I believe in multiple perspectives revealing aspects of the truth. > you are (possibly inadvertently) claiming that the company is also providing a different source of truth Correct. And I don’t buy the dichotomy you are framing of biased…

You believe in multiple sources to verify truth. Then why are you arguing against one of these sources? Why are you (effectively) saying that we should just trust a single source of truth - the companies who have explicit financial incentives to deceive?

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#187

Post by diggan »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #180
hilbert42 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly." Why? Because if you check the CVs of most of Politburo members they have degrees in science and engineering. QED!

And what's stopping the American people from voting smart people with engineering degrees to power instead of lying loud mouth conmen? Maybe because modern American mainstream culture has people worshiping the "clever" conman who got rich quick by gaming the system and scamming others, as opposed to hard working nerd who put in the long time and effort for an honest enrichment. Democratic societies get the leaders th…

> Democratic societies get the leaders they deserve as they are a mirror of the people themselves.

Don't confuse things being soiled by capitalism as democracy somehow is the bad part. There are plenty of examples of democracies that haven't succumbed to capitalism as badly as the US has.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#188

Post by dathinab »

hilbert42 wrote: post #169
Hawxy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know how well-organized or efficient they are They're 50 employees with an annual budget of $14.4 million. The cost/benefit ratio here is very good.

For that trivial amount this has to be anti-tech anti-science thinking at work. What's this administration trying do, return the US to the Third World or the Dark Ages? Madness.

what I would like to say:

yes,

specifically some modern form of feudalism I guess

where the new nobles (as in large companies because in US companies are people) can mostly do whatever they want and the rest of the population is struggling enough to just "get by" to find time to change anything

but given that Trump put since deniers and anti-vaccers into power it's probably a much more "dump" reason

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#190

Post by boringg »

immibis wrote: post #173
hilbert42 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that trivial amount this has to be anti-tech anti-science thinking at work. What's this administration trying do, return the US to the Third World or the Dark Ages? Madness.

Well, yes, pretty much. It's an observed pattern among authoritarian states that actual facts are frequently in opposition to the authority, therefore, actual facts must be eliminated. It's a silver lining in disguise, really. Such countries tend to collapse relatively quickly because it turns out facts are important for running a country - look at the USSR's fake food supply. Relatively quickly could still be a deca…

Some do many don’t collapse. How long were Mao, Saddam, Stalin in power? Could pull a longer list…
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