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Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

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Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#181
I love the idea of Phoenix and server side rendering (I happen to work on SkyMass, a related project).

This is a tangential comment and should not detract from what Chris and team have created. I think closing the loop between agent and the running output is a great/critical step forward.

However, I find using AI to build transitional Apps with a UI is a bit like improving the way automobile steering wheels are made. In a world that soon won't need steering wheels at all.

If the AI is so good to write the code for an App, how much longer before you won't need those Apps in the first place? And then the question is, what will fill the role that Apps play today.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#183
post #144

Technically this is really. Practically I don’t understand the point. Who is the target demographic? People that don’t have a local dev environment?

It's not really about the remote IDE. It's about an integrated environment where the agent can do everything it needs (install OS packages, inspect the code, view the app via a browser etc) in order to build what you want. It could end up being the place you 'start' an app, before exporting it and fleshing out the features locally.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#184
post #3

Chris is a hacker’s hacker.

A hacker's hacker who charges for closed source AI tools which work in hosted environments only. Yea, right.

Come on, devs need to eat. Companies need cash to employ people. After all that he has done for open source, you're complaining that something isn't free? You know you can export the code at any time right?

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that baffling. Why not just write the Elixir yourself?

Not just baffling, but concerning. LLM's are great for learning new languages, but terrible for outputting code you don't understand yet hope to maintain.

Yet, more and more people are going to be doing exactly this.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#186
post #181

I love the idea of Phoenix and server side rendering (I happen to work on SkyMass, a related project). This is a tangential comment and should not detract from what Chris and team have created. I think closing the loop between agent and the running output is a great/critical step forward. However, I find using AI to build transitional Apps with a UI is a bit like improving the way automobile steering wheels are made.…

I don't think we want to move to a world where everything we use is AI driven all the time.

A coded app is significantly more efficient to execute, and more predictable, than dealing with AI in most situations.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hacker's hacker who charges for closed source AI tools which work in hosted environments only. Yea, right.

Come on, devs need to eat. Companies need cash to employ people. After all that he has done for open source, you're complaining that something isn't free? You know you can export the code at any time right?

I'm not saying he's a bad dev, just hardly fits the hacker ethos.

We want things we can tinker and toy with from the inside.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#188
I’m torn on “is this the future”.

I worked all day on a Phoenix app we’re developing for ag irrigation analysis. Of late, my “let’s see what $20/mo gets you” is Zed with its genetic offerings.

It actually writes very little Elixir code for me. Sometimes, I let it have a go, but mostly I end up rewriting that stuff. Elixir is fun, and using the programming model as intended is enlightening.

What I do direct it to write a lot is a huge amount of the HEEX stuff for me. With an eventual pass over and clean it up for me. I have not memorized all of the nuances of CSS and html. I do not want to. And writing it has got to be the worst syntactic experience in the history of programming. It’s like someone said people lisp was cool; rather than just gobs of nested parentheses, let’s double, nay triple, no quadruple down on that. We’ll bracket all our statements/elements with a PAIR of hard to type characters, and for funsies, we’ll make them out different words in there. And then when it came to years of how to express lists of things, it’s like someone said “gimme a little bit of ini, case insensitivity, etc”. And every year, we’ll publish new spec of new stuff that preserves the old while adding the new. I digress…

I view agentic coding as an indictment on how bad programming has gotten. I’m not saying there wouldn’t be value, but a huge amount of the appeal, is that web tech is like legalese filled with what are probably hidden bugs that are swallowed by browsers in a variety of u predictable ways. What a surprise that we’ve given up and decided the key tools do the probabilistic right thing. It’s not like we had a better chance of being any more correctly precise on our own anyway.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#189
post #181

I love the idea of Phoenix and server side rendering (I happen to work on SkyMass, a related project). This is a tangential comment and should not detract from what Chris and team have created. I think closing the loop between agent and the running output is a great/critical step forward. However, I find using AI to build transitional Apps with a UI is a bit like improving the way automobile steering wheels are made.…

I don't think we want to move to a world where everything we use is AI driven all the time. A coded app is significantly more efficient to execute, and more predictable, than dealing with AI in most situations.

I don't disagree that code is far more efficient than inference. But what are those apps? A lot of apps are fetching some data, massaging it, rendering UI to let the user view / update data. Could the AI do some of that "work" for you, so that you don't need those dashboards / buttons / forms in the first place? Maybe you have an agent that does a db query (instead of a human viewing a dashboard) and takes some action (instead of the human clicking a button).

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes all 3. It has been weird trying to position/brand this as we started out just going for full-stack Elixir/Phoenix and it became very clear this is already much bigger than a single stack. That said, we wanted to nail a single stack super well to start and the agent is tailored for vibe'd apps atm. I want to introduce a pair mode next for more leveled assistance without having to nag it. You could absolutely treat…

> For me, something like this is the future of programming. Agents fiddling away and we pop in to see what's going on or work on things they aren't well suited for. Honestly, this is depressing. Pop in from what? Our factory jobs?

How about our software engineering jobs, which will now entail managing a team of agents?
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