Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
181–190 of 193 posts
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The benchmarks are make of questions that humans created and can answer, and are not composed of anything which a human hasn't been able to answer. Sure, but they do it at superhuman speeds, and if they truly can reason and come up with novel solutions as some AI proponents claim, then they would be able to come up with better answers as well. So, yes, they do have more capability in certain aspects than a human. I…
FWIW, we're barely a two years into useful LLMs, less than half a year into the AI coding frenzy. Stuff takes time, there's organizational inertia. Karpathy himself gave a perfect example in the talk with that restaurant menu to pictures app - it took few hours of AI-assisted coding to make it, and a week of devops bullshit to publish it . This is the case for everyone, so it slows down the feedback cycles right now.…
I'm simply pointing out the dissonance between what AI companies have been telling us for the past 2+ years, and the results that we would expect to see if their claims were true. I'm not holding my breath that their promises will magically materialize given more time. If they were honest, they would acknowledge that the current tech simply won't get us there because of fundamental issues that still haven't been addressed (e.g. hallucination). But instead it's more profitable to promote software that "thinks", "reasons", and is "close to digital superintelligence".
That menu app is an example of vibe coding, not of increased productivity. He sidestepped the bulk of the work that a human still needs to do to ensure that the software works beyond the happy path scenario he tested, has no security issues, and so on. Clearly, the reason the DevOpsy tasks took him much longer is because he's not an ops person. The solution to this isn't to offload these tasks to AI as well, and ignore all the issues that this could cause on the operational side. It's to either offload them to a competent ops engineer, or become familiar with the tools and processes yourself so that it doesn't take you a week to do them next time.
If you want to use AI to assist you with mindless mechanical tasks, that's fine, I frequently do so too. But don't tell me it's making you more productive when you ignore fundamental processes of software engineering.
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can someone so smart become a hype machine? I can’t wrap my head around it. Maybe he had the opportunity to learn from someone he worked closely with?
> How can someone so smart become a hype machine? I can’t wrap my head around it. Maybe they didn't, and it's just your perception.
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#184"We need to rewrite a lot of software," ok... why?
"AI is the new electricity" Really now... so I should expect a bill every month that always increases and to have my access cut off intermittently when there's a rolling AI power outage?
Interesting times indeed.
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I tried to imagine all that he described and felt literally nothing. If he wants to hype AI, he should find his Steve Jobs.
It was easy for me to see and it's incredible. Maybe I should be launching a startup.
I want to build things, not "launch startups". If someone asks me about a minimal thing of what I build, I want to be able to speak for hours about it, in detail. I want to completely understand it. I'm an engineer, not an enterpreneur.
This whole concept of Software 3.0 takes away all the craft from the thing. It's souless.
- "How did you do it?"
- "Dunno, just prompted it LOL."
Sounds very dumb to me. Even if you make loads of money off of it.
That's why I also believe it will not be a "gateway drug to software development". That's just a profound misconception of what makes good software developers tick.
They are now trying to sell the idea of control. You can "put it in a leash". It's pathetic. I don't want control, I want to understand it. Internalize it.
One thing that never changed in software development is that _you get the payoff_ for the hard work. You solve the mystery. You figure out how it works, by yourself.
Anyone that looked a little close to AI knows that it doesn't work that way. It's a black box thing. You will never fully get the knowledge payoff.
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#186> I think broadly speaking, software has not changed much at such a fundamental level for 70 years. I love Andrej, but come on. Writing essentially punch cards 70 years ago, writing C 40 years ago and writing Go or Typescript or Haskell 10 years ago, these are all very different activities.
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was easy for me to see and it's incredible. Maybe I should be launching a startup.
I can see it just fine, it just doesn't appeal to me. I want to build things, not "launch startups". If someone asks me about a minimal thing of what I build, I want to be able to speak for hours about it, in detail. I want to completely understand it. I'm an engineer, not an enterpreneur. This whole concept of Software 3.0 takes away all the craft from the thing. It's souless. - "How did you do it?" - "Dunno, just p…
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can see it just fine, it just doesn't appeal to me. I want to build things, not "launch startups". If someone asks me about a minimal thing of what I build, I want to be able to speak for hours about it, in detail. I want to completely understand it. I'm an engineer, not an enterpreneur. This whole concept of Software 3.0 takes away all the craft from the thing. It's souless. - "How did you do it?" - "Dunno, just p…
Like Karpathy said: it augments software 1.0, it does not replace it. It makes it easier to manipulate and communicate theory to more people. I really don't think people understand how great things could be.
I'm sure he's a great guy, but let's face it: He's there speaking those things because he made some popular videos in the past and they needed to renew their PR strategy.
Speaking of PR strategy...
> [...] augments [...]
Iron Man does not buy his metal suit at Costco. He builds it, in a cave, with a bunch of scraps. That's the magic of building things.
> I really don't think people understand how great things could be.
That's not the issue. I think it could be great, but they're being greedy and underestimating their best audience.
Instead, they're focusing on complete beginners, in the hopes that those beginners will generate enough monkey-bashing to train a model that can churn good quality "software 1.0" (which is the real deal, so far irreplaceable). I believe that's a mistake.
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like Karpathy said: it augments software 1.0, it does not replace it. It makes it easier to manipulate and communicate theory to more people. I really don't think people understand how great things could be.
> Karpathy [...] I'm sure he's a great guy, but let's face it: He's there speaking those things because he made some popular videos in the past and they needed to renew their PR strategy. Speaking of PR strategy... > [...] augments [...] Iron Man does not buy his metal suit at Costco. He builds it, in a cave, with a bunch of scraps. That's the magic of building things. > I really don't think people understand how gre…
Have you tried building things with this stuff? I have, it's exciting, there's all kinds of new things to build. I haven't been as excited to build things for a while before this.
Re: Andrej Karpathy's talk on the future of the industry
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Karpathy [...] I'm sure he's a great guy, but let's face it: He's there speaking those things because he made some popular videos in the past and they needed to renew their PR strategy. Speaking of PR strategy... > [...] augments [...] Iron Man does not buy his metal suit at Costco. He builds it, in a cave, with a bunch of scraps. That's the magic of building things. > I really don't think people understand how gre…
Are they focusing on beginners? I think everyone in tech has always been excited about bringing more people in but I don't feel like there's more of that here than anywhere else. Have you tried building things with this stuff? I have, it's exciting, there's all kinds of new things to build. I haven't been as excited to build things for a while before this.
That's what their PR material seems to imply.
> Have you tried building things with this stuff?
Yes.
> it's exciting, there's all kinds of new things to build
Yes, and no. I don't want to pay to build, or be dependent on an API or model delivery. It means I want to build the juicy stuff, the models themselves. Generate synthetic data, experiment with different approaches for training, etc. That is way outside the reach of common people (it can't be done now, you need lots of money).
I also don't want to buy a fancy GPU so early. Even the most expensive ones are currently very weak to do anything of real value. I could run some inference or adjust some weights, but I would still be at the mercy of some company delivering me base models.
The prices are all inflated because of the hype, and it seems AI companies are synchronizing this inflation with the hardware companies. I'm betting on this pricing bubble to pop.
Regarding the stuff I can do with already pre-trained models, there's not much to learn. In its core, it's basically the same good old stitching of APIs (I've been doing this for decades). I tried using the AI IDEs, but didn't found much value in them. I'm sure they're great for some scenarios, but it's more of a gimmick to use developers to generate training data than anything else.
Regarding "agents" and stuff, I have zero interest in competing in this "user of model" market. It's so easy to do, that any new idea is flooded with attempts and saturates in mere weeks.
When the opportunity to build something _really_ cool and novel appears, I'll give it a real chance. The race between big tech competitors is killing those opportunities for now, only people hired by big AI companies get to do it, and I'm not one of them.