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Now might be the best time to learn software development

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Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#181

Post by lubujackson »

chii wrote: post #162
dakiol wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we assume that Prompt Engineering is going to pay less money? As usual, what one brings to the company is value, and if AI-generated code needs to be prompted first and reviewed later, I don’t see how prompters in the future could earn less than software engineers now. Prompt engineering is like singing: sure thing everyone can physically sing… now whether it’s pleasant listening to them is another topic.

> Prompt engineering is like singing i think you got the analogy wrong. Not everyone can sing professionally, but most people can type text into a text-to-speech synthesis system to produce a workable song.

Maybe a better analogy is that now anyone can use autotune now and actually sing, but you still have to want to do it and put in the effort. Very few people do.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#182

Post by bgwalter »

guicen wrote: post #131

In fact, in my opinion, one of the benefits of AI tools that is often overlooked is "psychological support". When you are stuck at work, it will give you a push. Even if it is not completely right, it is enough to get you moving. The feeling of "no longer fighting alone at work" is actually more important than many people think.

To each his own. I'm completely drained after 30 min of "discussing" with an LLM, which is essentially an overconfident idiot.

Pushes never come from the LLM, which can be easily seen by feeding the output of two LLMs into each other. The conversation collapses completely.

Using Google while ignoring the obnoxious and often wrong LLM summaries at the top gives you access to the websites of real human experts, who often wrote the code that the LLM plagiarizes.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#183

Post by bgwalter »

dakiol wrote: post #160
pyman wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked my students to write a joke about AI. Sometimes humor is the best way to get people to talk about their fears without filters. One of them wrote: "I went to work early that day and noticed my monitor was on, and code was being written without anyone pressing any keys. Something had logged into my machine and was writting code. I ran to my boss and told him my computer had been hacked. He looked at me, concern…

Why do we assume that Prompt Engineering is going to pay less money? As usual, what one brings to the company is value, and if AI-generated code needs to be prompted first and reviewed later, I don’t see how prompters in the future could earn less than software engineers now. Prompt engineering is like singing: sure thing everyone can physically sing… now whether it’s pleasant listening to them is another topic.

Singing properly requires decades of training. Prompt engineering is like a 5 year old asking his parents for an ice cream. Some strategies are more successful than others.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#184

Post by bapak »

giantg2 wrote: post #175
dakiol wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we assume that Prompt Engineering is going to pay less money? As usual, what one brings to the company is value, and if AI-generated code needs to be prompted first and reviewed later, I don’t see how prompters in the future could earn less than software engineers now. Prompt engineering is like singing: sure thing everyone can physically sing… now whether it’s pleasant listening to them is another topic.

If you need fewer prompt engineers than developers to do the same work, and if prompt engineering is easier than developing meaning all developers can do it, then you need up with a massive labor oversupply.

How many programmers did you need 40 years ago to write MS DOS programs? As you become more productive, more is expected of you. Instead of spending 10 days coloring pixels on the screen, now you're expected to push whole UIs in the same amount of time. Whether this is enabled by high-level languages, tools or AI is irrelevant.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#185

Post by Izkata »

soco wrote: post #151
Gravityloss wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SQL had similar promises. But it still has been immensely useful and a durable paradigm, even though usage hasn't been exactly as thought.

Excel enters the chat

"Now hold still, I'm about to perform a miracle."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOO31qFmi9A

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#186

Post by jaza »

nathanfig wrote: post #2

Hi all - I write a lot for myself but typically don't share, hence the stream-of-consciousness style. But I thought this might be worth blogifying just for the sake of adding some counter-narrative to the doomerism I see a lot regarding the value of software developers. Feel free to tear it apart :)

Please share your writings more often. Nuclear attack combines, bring it on!

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#187

Post by winnie_ua »

sanderjd wrote: post #105
noworriesnate wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But software developers often struggle to use sql and prefer using ORMs or analytical APIs like polars; the people who excel at sql are typically not programmers, they’re data engineers, DBAs, analysts, etc. Maybe a similar bifurcation will arise where there are vibe coders who use LLMs to write everything, and there are real engineers who avoid LLMs. Maybe we’re seeing the beginning of that with the whole bifurcatio…

> But software developers often struggle to use sql Is this true? It doesn't seem true to me.

Oh, sweet summer child.

Yes, there are so many so called developers in backend field of work who do not know how to do basic SQL. Anything bigger than s9imple WHERE clause.

I wouldn't even talk about using indexes in database.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#188

Post by jonstewart »

nathanfig wrote: post #2

Hi all - I write a lot for myself but typically don't share, hence the stream-of-consciousness style. But I thought this might be worth blogifying just for the sake of adding some counter-narrative to the doomerism I see a lot regarding the value of software developers. Feel free to tear it apart :)

Most blog posts by devs these days are stultifying in their literal earnestness. Thanks for some sly sarcasm.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#189

Post by bgwalter »

jdright wrote: post #179
bgwalter wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially we as software engineers are not prepared for this fight as unions barely exist in our field. You can fight without unions. Tell the truth about LLMs: They are crutches for power users that do not really work but are used as excuses for firing people. You can refuse to work with anyone writing vapid pro-LLM blog posts. You can blacklist them in hiring. This addresses the union part. It is true that softw…

> This addresses the union part. lol, good luck with that. you thinking that one or two people doing non organized _boycott_ is the same thing as an union tell a lot about you.

I didn't mention one or two people, I mentioned a theoretical strategy that is also employed by non-unionized bureaucracies. And I admitted that the strategy is impeded by the fact that many software developers are self-loathing people with no spine.

It is possible that obedient people need highly paid union bosses, i.e., new leaders they can follow.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#190

Post by RickJWagner »

psunavy03 wrote: post #14

"Great news, boss! We invented this new tool that allows nontechnical people to write code in English! Now anyone can deploy applications, and we don't have to hire all those expensive developers!" "Wow, show it to me!" "OK here it is. We call it COBOL."

Very true.

But consider this— back in the day, how many mainframe devs ( plus all important systems programmer! ) would it take to conjure up a CRUD application?

Did you forget the vsam SME or dba? The CICS programming?

Today, one person can do that in a jiffy. Much, much less manpower.

That might be what AI does.

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