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Left-Pad (2024)

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Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#181

Post by JJMcJ »

skrebbel wrote: post #3

I have to admit that I don't understand half of this blog post, feels like I'm missing some context, but I do like that the "left pad guy" does a post mortem. That said, this seems like a weird argument to me: > but I still don't understand why NPM didn't take the time to find out if any of my modules were widely used and consider ways to handle the unpublishing without breaking anything Sure, NPM's unpublish mechani…

Years ago I used Sourceforge and they had a policy you had to ask permission before deleting a project.

After left-pad, I understood why.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#182

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

nindalf wrote: post #129
akoculu wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you were threatened (“we’ll will bang on your door and take down your accounts”) by a company like Kik and you defended the principles and values you believed until the end? I’m quite familiar with both western and eastern traditions, don’t know any better source than Ghazali’s “the alchemy of happiness” about how people make decisions. It’s kind of ironic to see people being triggered by just…

[flagged]

i haven't read it, now i'm interested in it, and frankly you sound like much more of a "wanker" at the end of things for centering your own (lack of) experience in this discussion.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#183

Post by olalonde »

akoculu wrote: post #179
olalonde wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems what you really meant was: > And third, they haven't read Al-Ghazali, don't quite understand how I make decisions. Not everyone makes decision guided by the heart. Many people lean more on reason and logic.

> Many people lean more on reason and logic. Yes, when theres's no impulse strong enough to outweigh reasoning. You don't need Ghazali for this, Kant also explains it. Before suggesting that I rephrase things, I think you should explore the domain first.

That’s beside the point. It’s perfectly valid to draw inspiration from Kant or Al-Ghazali for your decision-making framework, but neither explains how people actually make decisions in general-their work is fundamentally normative. By the way, I'd be surprised if a true Kantian would have arrived at the same decision as you.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#184

Post by akoculu »

olalonde wrote: post #183
akoculu wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people lean more on reason and logic. Yes, when theres's no impulse strong enough to outweigh reasoning. You don't need Ghazali for this, Kant also explains it. Before suggesting that I rephrase things, I think you should explore the domain first.

That’s beside the point. It’s perfectly valid to draw inspiration from Kant or Al-Ghazali for your decision-making framework, but neither explains how people actually make decisions in general-their work is fundamentally normative. By the way, I'd be surprised if a true Kantian would have arrived at the same decision as you.

[flagged]

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#185

Post by jeroenhd »

I never got why people were so mad at the guy behind left-pad. The entire incident showcases the sheer lunacy behind common web frameworks, and the power and control they sacrificed for the ease of use of external dependencies. If your day is ruined because some random guy you've never heard of on the other side of the world got an angry letter from lawyers, maybe take a look at the house of cards your product is based on rather than lay down blame.

left-pad will happen again. Maybe not on NPM, but on crates.io/pypi/Google's go proxy. All it takes is for a developer to join the ICC and piss of Trump and suddenly the code is impossible to find on any of the standard repositories. Even Go will have issues because despite the Github references, all the standard go traffic still goes through Google. Or even worse, someone fights back against a recent invasion and uploads a virus that wipes the drive of whatever locale they're targeting.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#186

Post by olalonde »

akoculu wrote: post #184
olalonde wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s beside the point. It’s perfectly valid to draw inspiration from Kant or Al-Ghazali for your decision-making framework, but neither explains how people actually make decisions in general-their work is fundamentally normative. By the way, I'd be surprised if a true Kantian would have arrived at the same decision as you.

[flagged]

More familiar than you apparently. Do you not agree that some people would not have made the same decision as you did back then?

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#188

Post by nindalf »

lmm wrote: post #104
k__ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the alternative have looked like? If NPM would have prevented the depublishing, he would have made a scene and in the worst case, they would have looked bad. How they actually handled it, the library author got full freedom but also full responsibility

> If NPM would have prevented the depublishing, he would have made a scene and in the worst case, they would have looked bad. I mean he says he asked them to remove all his packages, expecting them to do so gradually, following whatever mitigation strategy they felt appropriate (e.g. some kind of warning and fadeout process), and instead they gave him a script to do it immediately so he did that.

[flagged]

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#189

Post by akoculu »

olalonde wrote: post #180
bayindirh wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see a problem in someone deleting 1, 100 or 1000 repositories and moving on. Neither Open Source nor Free Software makes no promises of indefinite availability of the source code. Incidentally, HTTP has a status code for this. It’s 410 - Gone . Which is devised for exactly this purpose.

It used to be a "gentleman's agreement," but now npm enforces it - as a result of this guy's actions.

[flagged]
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