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Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

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Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#181

Post by doctorpangloss »

NewJazz wrote: post #159
pxc wrote: post #137

I hoped for a moment that "Containerization Framework" meant that macOS itself would be getting containers. Running Linux containers and VMs on macOS via virtualization is already pretty easy and has many good options. If you're willing to use proprietary applications to do this, OrbStack is the slickest, but Lima/Colima is fine, and Podman Desktop and Rancher Desktop work well, too. The thing macOS really painfully…

What would these be useful for?

Orchestrating macOS only software, like Xcode, and software that benefits from Environment integrity, like browsers.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#182

Post by bandoti »

p_ing wrote: post #109
bandoti wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about macOS being derived from BSD? Isn’t that where containers came from: BSD jails? I know the container ecosystem largely targets Linux just curious what people’s thoughts are on that.

OS X pulls some components of FreeBSD into kernel space, but not all (and those are very old at this point). It also uses various BSD bits for userspace. Good read from horse mouth: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...

Thank you—I’ll give that a read. :)

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#183

Post by Etheryte »

tensor wrote: post #171
wpm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing containers/jails are useful for on Linux and *BSD, without needing to spin up an entirely separate kernel to run in a VM to handle it.

MacOS apps can already be sandboxed. In fact it's a requirement to publish them to the Mac App Store. I agree it'd be nice to see this extended to userland binaries though.

You can't really sandbox development dependencies in any meaningful way. I want to throw everything and the kitchen sink into one container per project, not install a specific version of Python, Node, Perl or what have you globally/namespaced/whatever. Currently there's no good solution to that problem, save perhaps for a VM.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#184

Post by pests »

echelon wrote: post #57
vouaobrasil wrote: post #39

Apple's integration of AI into its MacOS is the one reason why I am considering a switch back to Linux after my current laptop dies.

This reads like the crotchety and persnickety 60-somethings in the 1990's who said the internet was a passing and annoying fad.

I was musing before sleep days ago about how maybe the internet still is just a fad. We’ve had a few decades of it, yeah, but maybe in the future people will look at it as boring tech just like I viewed VCRs or phones when I was growing up. Maybe we’re still addicted to the novelty of it, but in the future it fades into the background of life.

I’ve read stories about how people were amazed at calling each other and would get together or meet at the local home with a phone installed, a gathering spot, make an event about it. Now it’s boring background tech.

We kind of went through a faze of this with the introduction of webcams. Omegle, Chatroulette, it was a wild Wild West. Now it’s normalized, standard for work with the likes of Zoom, with FaceTiming just being normal.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#185

Post by renrutal »

chakintosh wrote: post #46

Some 15 years ago, A friend of mine said to me "mark my words, Apple will eventually merge OSX with iOS on the iPad". And with every passing keynote since then, it seemed Apple's been inching towards that prophecy, and today, the iPad has become practically a MacBook Air with a touch screen. Unless you were a video editor, programmer who needs resources to compile or a 3D artist, I don't see how you'd need anything o…

With Microsoft opening Windows's kernel to the Xbox team, and a possible macOS-iPadOS unification, we are reaching multiple levels of climate changes in Hell. It's hailing!

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#186

Post by reaperducer »

bigyabai wrote: post #27
retskrad wrote: post #23

After reading the book "Apple in China", it’s hilarious to observe the contrast between Apple as a ruthless, amoral capitalist corporation behind the scenes and these WWDC presentations...

This just in: company that spends billions on marketing is effective at marketing their products. News at 11.

News at 11.

…10 Central and Mountain.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#187

Post by doctorpangloss »

pxc wrote: post #137

I hoped for a moment that "Containerization Framework" meant that macOS itself would be getting containers. Running Linux containers and VMs on macOS via virtualization is already pretty easy and has many good options. If you're willing to use proprietary applications to do this, OrbStack is the slickest, but Lima/Colima is fine, and Podman Desktop and Rancher Desktop work well, too. The thing macOS really painfully…

It's not that macoscontainers is empty, it's that the site is https://darwin-containers.github.io

Read more about it here - https://github.com/darwin-containers

The developer is very responsive.

One of Apple's biggest value props to other platforms is environment integrity. This is why their containerization / automation story is worse than e.g. Android.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#188

Post by hackyhacky »

tensor wrote: post #163
watermelon0 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a hypervisor means just running a Linux VM, like WSL2 does on Windows. There is nothing native about it. Native Linux (and Docker) support would be something like WSL1, where Windows kernel implemented Linux syscalls.

> The Containerization framework enables developers to create, download, or run Linux container images directly on Mac. It's built on an open-source framework optimized for Apple Silicon and provides secure isolation between container images That's their phrasing, which suggests to me that it's just a virtualization system. Linux container images generally contain the kernel.

> Linux container images generally contain the kernel.

No, containers differ from VMs precisely in requiring dependency on the host kernel.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#189

Post by NewJazz »

Etheryte wrote: post #183
tensor wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS apps can already be sandboxed. In fact it's a requirement to publish them to the Mac App Store. I agree it'd be nice to see this extended to userland binaries though.

You can't really sandbox development dependencies in any meaningful way. I want to throw everything and the kitchen sink into one container per project, not install a specific version of Python, Node, Perl or what have you globally/namespaced/whatever. Currently there's no good solution to that problem, save perhaps for a VM.

Hmm have you tried devenv?

https://devenv.sh/

UV is pretty good for python too.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#190

Post by dang »

LoganDark wrote: post #108
dang wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I've squeezed containerization into the title above. It's unsatisfactory, since multiple announced-things are also being discussed in this thread, but "Apple's kitchen-sink announcement from WWDC this year" wouldn't be great either, and "Apple supercharges its tools and technologies for developers to foster creativity, innovation, and design" is right out. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&…

Small nitpick but "Announces" being capitalized looks a bit weird to me.

Me too - I thought I'd fixed that! Fixed now, thanks.
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