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AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

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Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#181
post #141

There's a deeper educational problem that's been decades in the making which is that students are trained to see school and work as a series of never ending goals to achieve. The ultimate one is to 'get a job'. Well, now nobody can really even say what jobs will be available in 5 to 10 years with high confidence. Except maybe the trades – and we mostly cut those programs out of schools a long time ago. If college stu…

Trades would collapse if even 10% of the population switched to them. What does no one get about this?

Well in sweden it's forbidden to fix anything electrical on your own. You're allowed to change your lamps and little else.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#182
post #10

> > Maintain professionalism and grounded honesty that best represents OpenAI and its values. I think a humanities person could tell you in an instant how that part of the system prompt would backfire catastrophically (in a near-future rogue-AI sci-fi story kind of way), exactly because of the way it's worded. In that scenario, the fall of humanity before the machines wasn't entirely due to hubris. The ultimate trigg…

That's what would happen if it was a logical system. It's not. This is where it gets interesting.

Instead, it's a statistical model, and including that prompt is more like a narrative weight than a logical demand. By including these words in this order, the model will be more likely to explore narratives that are statistically likely to follow them, with that likelihood determined by the content the model was trained on, and the extra redistribution of weights via training.

We don't really need to worry about technically misstating our objectives to an LLM. It doesn't follow objectivity. Instead, we need to be concerned about misrepresenting the overall vibe, which is a much more mysterious task.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a crazy amount of work. Four classes, or four sections of the same class?

Depends, but it is often four distinct classes. And yeah, it is a lot of work. This is why reusing preps is so valuable and why it is a bit ridiculous to see people demanding that professors suddenly figure out (on their own) how to rewrite their syllabi to mitigate cheating with AI.

Yikes.

My professor often taught classes with a couple sections, I’d help out sometimes—even that was a ton of work, pretty hard to do the main job (research) during those semesters. I wonder if (given the demographics of the board) folks are suggesting things from a similar place of informed ignorance to me—coming from research oriented STEM universities. In that case it could be reasonable to say “well, the situation with our classes has gotten so dire with AI, it might make sense to sacrifice a semester of research to sort that all out.” Of course if you are already prepping for four classes, there is not much slack to sacrifice…

In that case a lot of us would be specifically more wrong than a random person plucked off the street, somebody who thinks the main job of every professor is teaching.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#184
post #3

The first comment on that article caught my attention: > I am a grad student in the philosophy department at SFSU and teach critical thinking. This semester I pivoted my entire class toward a course design that feels more like running an obstacle course with AI than engaging with Plato. And my students are into it. It would be interesting to take a class of students and set them an assignment to come up with assignme…

> Designing "ChatGPT-proof assignments" feels to me like a similar level of intellectual challenge.

Designing a "mostly ChatGPT-proof class" is in my opinion actually rather simple: just be inspired by the German university system:

Each week you have to complete exercise sheets which are often hard. But being capable of solving a certain quota of the exercises is just the beginning: this only qualifies you for being allowed to take the actual (oral or written) exam.

In this sense (as many professors will tell you), the basically sole purpose of the quota for solving (often hard) exercise sheets is actually preventing students from the "self-inflicted harm" of doing an exam that they are not yet prepared for.

And yes: while it is forbidden to "cheat" (e.g. ChatGPT) on your exercise sheets, this policy is typically not strongly enforced (you will nearly always just get a unequivocal, strongly worded oral reprimand by the tutor). Instead, if you did this, you will for sure not be prepared for the upcoming exam, and flunk it (and most students are very aware of this).

Oh yeah, I didn't mention yet that if you flunked the same exam typically 3 times (depending on the university), you have "finally failed" (endgültig nicht bestanden), and are not allowed anymore to study the same degree course at every German university.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can move between groups. If your expertise turns out not needed get a cheap job while learning something else.

The only way to develop deep expertise is to do it as your job.

There exist in my opinion rather few jobs where you will develop a deep expertise in some area.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#186
post #107

I would love to be a literature student today. Consume the classics in audiobook form while flâneuring or gaming. Red team every essay with ChatGPT. Become a top tier Genius.com contributor for poetry. Listen to all the online lectures from Oxford, Yale etc. Effortlessly pick up where past critics have left off because the AI can summarise all contributions on any topic. Find every reference to support your thesis in…

Sounds like all ways to skirt around the actual learning bit. Consuming the classics while gaming? Really?

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#187
> When I asked him why he had gone through so much trouble to get to an Ivy League university only to off-load all of the learning to a robot, he said, “It’s the best place to meet your co-founder and your wife.”

On the one hand, this guy is not wrong, from a personal perspective. On the other hand, guys like this are a total waste of time and space in the classroom.

Schools have always faced a fundamental internal conflict, i.e., dueling purposes, and recent developments such as the rise of ChatGPT and the rise of student loan debt may have finally brought the entire educational system to a crisis.

We like to think of education as the primary purpose of the educational system, hence the name. And education is indeed essential, not just for job training but also for the enrichment of human life, as well as the preservation of democracy and freedom. Arguably, the latter are more important. Yet we also rely on the educational system for social and economic sorting. It's a ranking system that has a monumental effect on the future prospects of students. And as the above quotation notes, it's a club, an exclusive club, where the lucky few get to meet the right people and enter into important social circles.

At the university level, things become even more muddled, because professors and scientists are performing important research that may have little or nothing to do with the education of undergraduate students. A lot of this research is important for society, and for industry, but it still comes into conflict with the other purposes of the university.

So how do we resolve the inherent conflict? Is there a way to split the educational system into separate entities that are truer to their individual purposes? Can we make a place for the social ladder climber that's separate from a place where real learning happens, where nobody is tempted to cheat because there's nothing to be gained from cheating? It should also be noted that not everyone is ready to learn. Our current educational system is designed like an assembly line, based on age and social promotion. Everyone of the same age is expected to follow the same track. I personally wasn't ready to study and learn when I was a teenager; it took several more years for me to mature emotionally, develop ambition and discipline. It's difficult to force-feed students: “Most assignments in college are not relevant,” he told me. “They’re hackable by AI, and I just had no interest in doing them.” Perhaps, though, there might be more motivation to learn if learning was not tied to future economic and social prospects. If students view school as merely a tool to achieve certain benefits, then of course they'll view anything else in school as a waste of time.

In a sense, our educational system finds failure to educate to be acceptable, even desirable, because failure fulfills the alternative purpose of social ranking.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m convinced plumbing would pay better than programming in certain neighborhoods right now now.

Plumbers never realized that they should be selling service plans and leasing toilets to people. Software's golden goose is not letting people own things.

The people who lease toilets to people are landlords, as part of leasing the rest of the building or unit.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#189
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is a military base the only place “no devices” can be enforced or something? I mean with the force of law, yea. Businesses get away with a little bit more in places because they pay you to show up . But if you think anyone is going to university/college to have all their devices taken away all the time and pay for the privilege then you might be confused.

No but people do pay universities for (among other things) a meaningful credential that testifies to their knowledge and abilities. If taking away phones is what’s required to make that credential meaningful again, then the universities must do it. I think of it like a personal trainer. Do you pay them to make you sweaty and sore? Not really, but sweat and soreness are consequences of doing what it takes to build mus…

>meaningful credential that testifies to their knowledge and abilities.

No they don't, or at least a significant percentage of them don't. They pay the university because it is a paywall between them and even getting an interview in the first place.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#190
post #141

There's a deeper educational problem that's been decades in the making which is that students are trained to see school and work as a series of never ending goals to achieve. The ultimate one is to 'get a job'. Well, now nobody can really even say what jobs will be available in 5 to 10 years with high confidence. Except maybe the trades – and we mostly cut those programs out of schools a long time ago. If college stu…

Just like AI seems like it's being used as a convenient scapegoat for the layoffs and trimming following the end of ZIRP, now we see it also being used to blame for the failures of our modern education system. Mostly which are that our system only rewards one thing in education: the grade. Not understanding, knowledge, intelligence, but instead a single number that is more easily gamified than anything. And this sing…

Our modern education system in the US is broken, but acting as if AI is a scapegoat is comical.

Capitalism is what has destroyed higher education in this country. The concept of going to school to get a job isn’t a failure of education but of economics.

AI is just another capitalist tool made to not only extract wealth out of you but something that they want you to rely on more and more so they can charge you even more down the road.

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