I was not surprised when Klarna or Shoppify made these inane AI uber alles type statements to placate the investor class. Having followed and envied Louis for quite some time, I did fee very disappointed when he jumped into the deep end of the AI pool without looking.
Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
181–190 of 348 posts
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I studied German for 3 years in university, dabbled in German duo-lingo, and completed all German courses on Memrise. I don't see how one can learn German fluently using Duolingo (or even Memrise, which I think is much better). It's great for vocabulary, but I think understanding the grammar requires understanding the theory which I didn't see when I used these applications.
I used Duolingo maybe ten years ago to get myself up to approx A1, mid-A2 level German. Back then every new piece of grammar actually had an explanatory page that you could study before jumping in to the quiz games. As the enshittification began, they made these harder to find so that instead encountering a new linguistic concept in the quiz felt like a cruel guessing game. For beginners to German these days, I heart…
> Back then every new piece of grammar actually had an explanatory page that you could study before jumping in to the quiz games.
These still exist but they're hidden in a little unlabelled button at the top right of the unit overview and I don't think they ever mentioned it to me or do any hinting to go look at them. It's silly cause they're quite useful. I guess they just want people doing the lessons (playing the game) and not boring them with asking them to read about grammar.
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#183I switched to Busuu. It's very similar to Duolingo, but quite cheaper and has videos and certificates.
well if it has certificates!
You joke, but certification is important for some jobs, university admissions and visa applications in many countries.
For example Cambridge has a big program for English which tons of universities in the english speaking world use for admissions of foreign students
I don’t know if Busuu certificates are accepted anywhere major yet but it is not a bad idea, not every major language has standardized tests and rating systems like CEFR, there is room for new players especially in non European languages
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#184I was happily paying for Duolingo Super, despite being unconfident in its pedagogy, until they announced they were replacing their human curriculum writers. Dropped it instantly. I get the bargain-basement cost-cutting appeal from a (bad) CEO's perspective, but if I'm paying actual money for a service, I want said money going to humans.
Not to mention, at that point they are essentially just serving as the middle man between you and a LLM. Instead of paying for Duolingo to ask an LLM to generate a bunch of Spanish phrases for you, you can pay for the LLM and do that yourself plus a lot more. I’m not sure Duolingo has a solid understanding of why they exist as a business.
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got started on Duolingo back when it was still a "Help translate the world" app. I've always liked it for getting to dip my toes in a language and learn some basics whilst exploring the language myself through other methods, and I've shown my support of it by paying for Duolingo Super or whatever they're calling it for years on end whilst hopping on and off my language tracks. But it's just so horrible now, constan…
Yeah the first thing I translated on DuoLingo was the Wikipedia article for Ubuntu.
I finished the Spanish course many years ago (is finishing still possible?)
Thanks for reminding me it had page translations, I did a few of those and enjoyed it! Shame it went.
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#186My wife quit Duolingo the week before this announcement after years of watching Duolingo prioritize attention manipulation over learning. She had a nearly 6-year streak and was on the paid version at the time, but realized that it wasn't actually helping her learn any more: she'd at some point begun maintaining a streak just for the sake of maintaining a streak. The best documentation for Duolingo's decline is this a…
(disclosure: I am no longer at Coursera)
When Duolingo added that viral post on Growth hacking, it caused quite a stir about the push-notifications and gamification tactics they use. Ultimately, we decided it wasn't worth it for Coursera to veer into edu-tainment.
However, it is interesting to watch how much gamification works in adding and retaining users. In 2023, Duolingo's marketcap was 5x of Coursera. Now at similar revenue it is 20x of Coursera.
As a user, I think Duolingo is over-gamified (stopped using it) but Coursera is severely on the other spectrum where it comes off as too bland/boring to keep up the motivation. I am sure there's a happy medium to be found between reminding users to engage in something hard while doing right by learners.
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree with this in principle. Gamification is something we should be very wary of because it is inherently bad. It reduces what you care about in an activity to points and a progress bar. Instead of sticking with language learning because you have some intrinsic reason to want to learn it (or even a external one such as wanting a new job) you're substituting that with whatever Duolingo puts for their gamificatio…
If the gamification is fully disclosed, I don't see the problem. People should be able to agree to game themselves, if it helps them complete a task they otherwise wouldn't finish. But consent is key. Maybe we need regulation that compels companies to disclose these manipulative techniques in digital services. Give people the chance to opt in or out.
People should be allowed to game themselves. But this isn't language learners setting up little games for themselves to learn more. This is 1 version of gamification pushed on all of it's users, whether or not it would work for them (or at all).
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#188The Dildo of AI Rarely Arrives Lubed
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree with this in principle. Gamification is something we should be very wary of because it is inherently bad. It reduces what you care about in an activity to points and a progress bar. Instead of sticking with language learning because you have some intrinsic reason to want to learn it (or even a external one such as wanting a new job) you're substituting that with whatever Duolingo puts for their gamificatio…
Why do people prefer games over hard work while learning? Because this is how we used to naturally learn. Kids having fun playing hide and seek? Wrestling and throwing stones? They are learning hunting/survival skills. Today with more abstract knowledge needed it is harder, but the concept of making abstract learning a game again, is a very smart one in general. It of course fails, if engagement becomes the metric an…
But in your analogy, the base Duolingo app without its gamification is the gamification of learning a language.
The streaks and points and everything else is a gamification of gamification of learning.
Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not stinginess, it's value. If an LLM can teach me a language, why wouldn't I go straight to the source and use GPT or Claude and customize it to my exact needs. I feel like so many AI products these days won't be around a few years from now once more people find out that all their doing is providing a slightly different UI to what you can get directly from OAI, Anthropic, Google for cheaper and better and more…
Plus, being stingy even if you have money benefits those who don't have money. It's why I buy the $0.50 macaroni and cheese instead of the $1.69 version. I don't really care; either would be fine. But I don't want companies to succeed in charging more. I want them to desperately need to cut their selling price in order to succeed. People buying expensive products (assuming they aren't truly better ) are helping screw…
I love how you make being upper middle class yet stingy to be about helping the poor. You're not buying cheap things because you're cheap and want to keep more of that money (and thus pay less taxes that would go to the poor), you're doing it to save the world!