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AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

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Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#181

Post by sshine »

idiotsecant wrote: post #146
sshine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s great that you have sympathy for illustrators, but I don’t see a big difference if the training data is a novel, a picture, a song, a piece of code, or even a piece of legal text. As my mom retired from being a translator, she went from typewriter to machine-assisted translation with centralised corpus-databases. All the while the available work became less and less, and the wages became lower and lower. In the…

My prediction: It will be like furniture. A long time ago, every piece of furniture was handmade. It might have been good furniture, or crude, poorly constructed furniture, but it was all quite expensive, in terms of hours per piece. Now, furniture is almost completely mass produced, and can be purchased in a variety of styles and qualities relatively cheaply. Any customization or uniqueness puts it right back into t…

> There will be a niche industry of 'hand made' media with real acting and writing from human brains, but it will be expensive, a mark of conspicuous consumption and class differentiation.

This addresses one axis of development.

Meanwhile, there's lots of people around willing to express themselves for advertisement money.

Like with translation: We're going to see tool-assisted work where the tools get more and more sophisticated.

Your example with furniture is good. Another is cars: From horses to robotaxis. Humans are in the loop somewhere still.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#183

Post by numpad0 »

falsaberN1 wrote: post #148
numpad0 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online artists are more likely to be consultants and marketing experts. They "flip burgers", or rather make PowerPoints and lays out magazine articles, 12 hours a day for 8 days a week anyway. So AI only "financially" hurts them in the sense that it hurts their dopamine income.

This is more like it. Every dedicated artist I know does something else to pay the bills, from actual burger flippers to sysadmins like me. They will make time to draw things because they simply like doing it.

I really think this is why a lot of discussions and projects around generative AI and AI-relevant art don't go well. It's a one-way outside influence that also affect economy as second order effect to cultural impacts. Because economical impacts of these online arts are mere downstream effects, manipulations in that domain just don't work.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#184

Post by card_zero »

exe34 wrote: post #182
card_zero wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to invent a new pun, it seemed a crime not to make the effort.

how did you come up with it?

Let's say I used an AI. Actually I browsed unrelated word lists in Onelook - I think I was on synonyms for "confusion" - until I remembered the word atelier because it turns up in fantasy anime a lot. But that's a kind of machine assistance, so let's pretend it was an LLM, if that helps with where you're taking this. Now what?

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#186

Post by robotblake »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #54
kachapopopow wrote: post #40

Some of these are very obviously trained on webtoons and manga, probably pixiv as well. This is very clear due to seeing CG buildings and other misc artifacts. So this is obviously trained on copyrighted material. Art is something that cannot be generated like synthetic text so it will have to be nearly forever powered by human artists or else you will continue to end up with artifacting. So it makes me wonder if art…

I think many artists will see that if they publish anything original then AI companies will immediately use it as training data without regards to copyright. The result will be less original art. They will simply stop creating it or publishing it. IMO music streaming has similarly lead to a collapse in quality music artistry, as fewer talented individuals are incentivised to go down that path. AI will do the same for…

Well said.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#187

Post by robotblake »

rererereferred wrote: post #133
rhubarbtree wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many artists will see that if they publish anything original then AI companies will immediately use it as training data without regards to copyright. The result will be less original art. They will simply stop creating it or publishing it. IMO music streaming has similarly lead to a collapse in quality music artistry, as fewer talented individuals are incentivised to go down that path. AI will do the same for…

> music streaming has similarly lead to a collapse in quality music artistry, as fewer talented individuals are incentivised to go down that path. Is there data for this? I feel there's more musicians than ever and there's more very talented musicians than ever and the most famous ones are more famous than ever so I would like to see if that's correct.

The internet has allowed for more artists to get exposure for sure, but it's still down to luck / prettiness / virality etc. In terms of slop (not necessarily AI) there's shit like this https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-denies-its-pl...

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#188

Post by dogcomplex »

idiotsecant wrote: post #146
sshine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s great that you have sympathy for illustrators, but I don’t see a big difference if the training data is a novel, a picture, a song, a piece of code, or even a piece of legal text. As my mom retired from being a translator, she went from typewriter to machine-assisted translation with centralised corpus-databases. All the while the available work became less and less, and the wages became lower and lower. In the…

My prediction: It will be like furniture. A long time ago, every piece of furniture was handmade. It might have been good furniture, or crude, poorly constructed furniture, but it was all quite expensive, in terms of hours per piece. Now, furniture is almost completely mass produced, and can be purchased in a variety of styles and qualities relatively cheaply. Any customization or uniqueness puts it right back into t…

This. Except one should also disillusion themselves of the idea that there will always be a higher quality to the 'hand made' versions. AI will almost certainly outpace us in every way, including the ability to make something beautiful that looks 'hand-made', even with artificial flaws and illusions of the history and natural rugged beauty of the piece.

The only discernable difference that won't be replicable is a cryptographic signature "Certified 100% Human-Made!" sticker, which will probably become the mark of the niche industry.

Somewhat more accurate analogy would be the custom car market. Beautiful collectible convertibles with fine detailing everywhere, priced thousands of times higher than normal cars, that actually run far worse and basically break apart after a few thousand miles and are impossible to find parts for. Automated factories certainly could churn them out but they don't because they're impractical poorly-designed status items kept artificially scarce for the very rich to peacock with.

Except AI will probably still produce equivalent impractical stuff anyway, just because production (digital and physical) will eventually be easy enough that resources are negligible, and everyone can have flashy impractical stuff. So again, only that "100% Human!" seal will distinguish, eventually.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#189

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

idiotsecant wrote: post #146
sshine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s great that you have sympathy for illustrators, but I don’t see a big difference if the training data is a novel, a picture, a song, a piece of code, or even a piece of legal text. As my mom retired from being a translator, she went from typewriter to machine-assisted translation with centralised corpus-databases. All the while the available work became less and less, and the wages became lower and lower. In the…

My prediction: It will be like furniture. A long time ago, every piece of furniture was handmade. It might have been good furniture, or crude, poorly constructed furniture, but it was all quite expensive, in terms of hours per piece. Now, furniture is almost completely mass produced, and can be purchased in a variety of styles and qualities relatively cheaply. Any customization or uniqueness puts it right back into t…

The reproduction cost for the 2nd copy of media is near zero just like software. Handmade or customized furniture is more expensive because it takes more labor for each copy. With media, the cost is fixed, even if it is large. Once the first version of handmade media has been created, the owner is incentivized to get as much value from it as possible. The optimal demand curve is probably not a few rich people paying as much as possible.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#190

Post by protocolture »

raincole wrote: post #84
protocolture wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So this is obviously trained on copyrighted material. Is it? I have no knowledge of this product, but I recall Novel AI paid for a database of tagged Anime style images. Its not impossible for something similar to have happened here.

If you believe NovelAI is only trained on legally acquired content, I have a bridge to sell you.

The argument they made, at least for the 1.0 of their image model, is that the database of images they purchased was heavily tagged reducing the work they had to do.

That isn't to say that they purchased everything they have ever used. Nor do I care if they have.

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