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Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

cnn.com

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Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#181

Post by dfxm12 »

socalgal2 wrote: post #156
monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

> So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Yes? We got rid of telephohe operators. We got rid of "computers" (people who compute). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_(occupation) We effectively got rid of horse shoe makers, liveries, etc... > Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... Does it suck for the truck drivers. Yes. Does that mean we should give them busy work even though their j…

On the other hand, the current administration is not interested in education or welfare though, or labor protections in general. Fired truckers don't have a whole lot of transferrable skills related to maintaining self driving vehicles, and they would all be competing for same openings anyway. You can't just get another job when you want it, and you need some way to take care of the bills until you can get hired.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#182

Post by encrypted_bird »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #148
encrypted_bird wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. This is no better than that terribly disingenuous argument that "nobody wants to work". No, we'd love to work. But we also value not starving to death and having some semblance of work-life balance.

Someone dug into newspaper archives and found an example of the "nobody wants to work anymore" phrase every year for the last 100 years. The phrase likely predates the printing press. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161426

This doesn't surprise me in the least. It's the same thing with older people claiming moral degeneration with younger generations.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#183

Post by throwaway48476 »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #173
pedalpete wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it fair to say they are "beta testing" on public roads with the public paying the price after they've done four years with a supervised driver in the cab?

We have two examples to look at: Waymo, which appears to be doing an excellent job of handling it. Their robotaxis consistently seem to have a better track record than humans (although it's possible the limits put on them taint the comparison.) Cruise, which had a whole bunch of problems with edge cases and last I knew wasn't allowed to operate anymore. I'd share the road with a Waymo truck (not that their system can…

Once the technology has been proven it should be possible for fast followers to catch up. We can't let the market be captured by whoever passes the bar first.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#184

Post by potato3732842 »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #176
potato3732842 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. This is statement is somewhere between ignorant and an outright lie. There's a bunch of rules governing how many hours truckers can work. And those regulations are mostly followed. And when they're not it's typically some local outfit delivering fuel or groceries, not the long haul mega fleets https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/ho…

That's the problem. The human alertness cycle can't be forced to align with the ELT logged time schedule. Truckers used to drive longer when they felt awake and choose their own rest times as long as it averaged out.

You're preaching to the choir here but there's less than zero chance you could ever get a regulatory agency to understand something like that.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#185

Post by jfengel »

Ygg2 wrote: post #142
echelon wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> assuming this is actually remotely profitable Why wouldn't it be? > instead of improve their conditions I wouldn't want to drive a truck. To be frank, I really don't want to answer Jira tickets and write plumbing code either. I sincerely hope that none of what most of us do today has to be a job in fifty years.

> Why wouldn't it be? My debt is your asset, and vice versa. Tell me, what does the autonomous truck drink? Or eat? The less you pay the driver the less money does driver have to buy whatever he is carrying.

That doesn't automatically mean that the economy drops. The truck driver gets the next-least-undesirable job.

That may pay almost the same, or it may not exist. It depends. It's never as simple as "we automated the job so the person is useless."

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#186

Post by krapp »

encrypted_bird wrote: post #136
gazook89 wrote: post #131

> help bolster a critical sector of the American economy, which often can't find enough drivers. They can find enough drivers, but won’t pay them enough or give them any dignity. The industry has a 90% turnover rate per year. So obviously they are finding drivers all the time…they just don’t keep them.

Thank you. This is no better than that terribly disingenuous argument that "nobody wants to work". No, we'd love to work. But we also value not starving to death and having some semblance of work-life balance.

>But we also value not starving to death and having some semblance of work-life balance.

But the free market has decided you're barely worth the cost to keep alive, much less happy. What are you, some kind of communist?

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#187

Post by ethagnawl »

calmbell wrote: post #157
gazook89 wrote: post #131

> help bolster a critical sector of the American economy, which often can't find enough drivers. They can find enough drivers, but won’t pay them enough or give them any dignity. The industry has a 90% turnover rate per year. So obviously they are finding drivers all the time…they just don’t keep them.

Here is an article from 2022 that does a great job of explaining the issue: https://www.columnblog.com/p/us-media-celebrates-letting-18-... "Cut to 2022. Wages are still down 30% to 50% in key markets, and the job is as dangerous and taxing as ever. Naturally, the pool of people wanting the job would reduce accordingly. Thus, when demand for truckers increases, there’s a “labor shortage.” But, as Peter Greene noted i…

I wish it were possible to get this through to the NOBODY WANTS TO WORK ANYMORE crowd. Ironically, they're the ones who would benefit from better working conditions, compensation and a stronger safety net. It's a similar phenomenon to the working class folks I know who "hate unions" ... just as long as it's not theirs or one they might be able to join.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#188

Post by cycomanic »

o11c wrote: post #101
recursivedoubts wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

next level would be to hook these "platoons" together physically and then centralize the propulsion in a super efficient package. And then we could move them off the highways and onto specialized "tracks" that guarantee they don't deviate from the planned routes. speculative, alien technology, admittedly, but some day our scientists will figure it out i bet!

The problem with railroad is exactly the other side of this: that you can't trivially and automatically detach a single car at any point. I know businesses that literally have an old railroad branch line right up to their door, but they can't actually order anything meaningful via rail. The existing rail system has at least the following constraints: * Uses steel-on-steel friction, rather than rubber-on-rock. Cars th…

The bigger issue is that roads are immensely subsidised compared to rail. Even on private roads that are completely covered by usage charges, trucks pay maybe a factor of 2-10 more than cars, however they cause about 40000 times more wear (let's even disregard how they also cause disproportionately more traffic...). Obviously this calculation becomes even worse if we consider that most roads are subsidised by all tax payers. Trucks would be much less profitable (especially for long haul traffic) if they would have to cover their actual cost to society. But they are just another example of privatising profits and socialising the costs.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#189

Post by materielle »

monkaiju wrote: post #134
echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

Why stop there?

We should bring back elevator operators. And station a traffic guard on every corner instead of traffic lights. Let’s bring back tool booth operators. And let’s delete Google calendar and bring back secretaries while we’re at it.

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