Live data from Hacker News

Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

inceptionlabs.ai

181–189 of 189 posts

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's totally cribbed from some discussion hat occurred in its training.

As apposed to humans who all derive the physics of heat transfer independently when given a question like this? Not picking on you - this brings up something we could all get better at: There should be a "First Rule of Critiquing Models": Define a baseline system to compare performance against. When in doubt, or for general critiques of models, compare to real world random human performance. Without a real practical…

> As apposed to humans who all derive the physics of heat transfer independently when given a question like this?

Isn't that the difference between learning and memorizing, though? If you were taught Newton's Law of Cooling using this example and truly learned it, you could apply it to other problems as well. But if you only memorized it, you might be able to recite it when asked the same question, yet still be unable to apply it to anything else.

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#182

>Mercury is up to 10x faster than frontier speed-optimized LLMs. Our models run at over 1000 tokens/sec on NVIDIA H100s, a speed previously possible only using custom chips. This means on custom chips (Cerebras, Graphcore, etc...) we might see 10k-100k tokens/sec? Amazing stuff! Also of note, funny how text generation started w/ autoregression/tokens and diffusion seems to perform better, while image generation went…

After reviewing what they have on their playground, this thing seems to be a scam.

They're running Qwen on a traditional LLM pipeline. The "diffusion effect", as it says there, it's just a decorative, lmao. That in itself shouldn't break the deal as I understand you have to put on a show, but, looking at the latency and timing of their outputs this is not a diffusion model, as they claim. They're also not even close to the 1,000 TPS figure they put out.

I'm surprised nobody on this forum got the slightest clue on that. I guess I should 4x my fee again :).

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The explanation is likely to be correlated with the underlying reason for the answer. No it isn't. You misunderstand how LLMs work. They're giant Mad Libs machines: given these surrounding words, fill in this blank with whatever statistically is most likely. LLMs don't model reality in any way.

Did you read the example above? Do you disagree that the LLM provided a correct explanation for the reason it answered as it did? > They're giant Mad Libs machines: given these surrounding words, fill in this blank with whatever statistically is most likely. LLMs don't model reality in any way. Not sure why you think this is incompatible with the statement you disagreed with.

> Do you disagree that the LLM provided a correct explanation for the reason it answered as it did?

Yes, I do. An LLM replies with the most likely string of tokens. Which may or may not correspond with the correct or reasonable string of tokens, depending on how stars align. In this case the statistically most likely explanation the LLM replied with just happened to correspond with the correct one.

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#184

It fails the MU Puzzle¹ by violating rules: To transform the string "AB" to "AC" using the given rules, follow these steps: 1. *Apply Rule 1*: Add "C" to the end of "AB" (since it ends in "B"). - Result: "ABC" 2. *Apply Rule 4*: Remove the substring "CC" from "ABC". - Result: "AC" Thus, the series of transformations is: - "AB" → "ABC" (Rule 1) - "ABC" → "AC" (Rule 4) This sequence successfully transforms "AB" to "AC"…

Nice writeup! This is the second post I've seen in the genre of "I've had a secret, personal benchmark for LLMs where the 'solution' requires questioning the premises, and o4-mini-high beats it." The first post I saw was about a chessboard and the prompt "mate in one:" https://x.com/KelseyTuoc/status/1912945346126417940

(Edited to remove direct spoiler for the MU-puzzle, in case people want to try it.)

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to find an example of the LLM making a mistake. In your example, ChatGPT answered correctly. There are many examples online of LLMs answering basic questions incorrectly, and then the person asking the LLM why it did so. The LLM response is usually nonsense. Then there is the question of what you would do with its response. It’s not like code where you can go in and update the logic. There are billions of fl…

I don't think llms always can give correct explanations for their answers. That's a misunderstanding. > Then there is the question of what you would do with its response. I Sure but that's a separate question. I'd say the first course of action would be to edit the prompt. If you have to resort to fine tuning I'd say the approach has failed and the tool was insufficient for the task.

It’s not really a separate question imo. We want to know whether computer code or prompts are better for programming things like vending machines.

For LLMs, interpretability is one problem. The ability to effectively apply fixes is another. If we are talking about business logic, have the LLM write code for it and don’t tie yourself in knots begging the LLM to do things correctly.

There is a grey area though, which is where code sucks and statistical models shine. If your task was to differentiate between a cat and a dog visually, good luck writing code for that. But neural nets do that for breakfast. It’s all about using the right tool for the job.

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the example above? Do you disagree that the LLM provided a correct explanation for the reason it answered as it did? > They're giant Mad Libs machines: given these surrounding words, fill in this blank with whatever statistically is most likely. LLMs don't model reality in any way. Not sure why you think this is incompatible with the statement you disagreed with.

> Do you disagree that the LLM provided a correct explanation for the reason it answered as it did? Yes, I do. An LLM replies with the most likely string of tokens. Which may or may not correspond with the correct or reasonable string of tokens, depending on how stars align. In this case the statistically most likely explanation the LLM replied with just happened to correspond with the correct one.

> In this case the statistically most likely explanation the LLM replied with just happened to correspond with the correct one.

I claim that case is not so uncommon as people in this thread seem to think

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#187
post #53

Anybody able to get the "View Technical Report" button at the bottom to do anything? I was curious to glean more details but it doesn't work on either of my devices. I'm curious what level of detail they're comfortable publishing around this, or are they going full secret mode?

There's at least some discussion in https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/pLnLSgWphqDbdorgi/on-the-imp...

>Instead of generating tokens one at a time, a dLLM produces the full answer at once. The initial answer is iteratively refined through a diffusion process, where a transformer suggests improvements for the entire answer at once at every step. In contrast to autoregressive transformers, the later tokens don’t causally depend on the earlier ones (leaving aside the requirement that the text should look coherent). For an intuition of why this matters, suppose that a transformer model has 50 layers and generates a 500-token reasoning trace, the final token of this trace being the answer to the question. Since information can only move vertically and diagonally inside this transformer and there are fewer layers than tokens, any computations made before the 450th token must be summarized in text to be able to influence the final answer at the last token. Unless the model can perform effective steganography, it had better output tokens that are genuinely relevant for producing the final answer if it wants the performed reasoning to improve the answer quality. For a dLLM generating the same 500-token output, the earlier tokens have no such causal role, since the final answer isn’t autoregressively conditioned on the earlier tokens. Thus, I’d expect it to be easier for a dLLM to fill those tokens with post-hoc rationalizations.

>Despite this, I don’t expect dLLMs to be a similarly negative development as Huginn or COCONUT would be. The reason is that in dLLMs, there’s another kind of causal dependence that could prove to be useful for interpreting those models: the later refinements of the output causally depend on the earlier ones. Since dLLMs produce human-readable text at every diffusion iteration, the chains of uninterpretable serial reasoning aren’t that deep. I’m worried about the text looking like gibberish at early iterations and the reasons behind the iterative changes the diffusion module makes to this text being hard to explain, but the intermediate outputs nevertheless have the form of human-readable text, which is more interpretable than long series of complex matrix multiplications.

Based solely on the above, my armchair analysis is that it seems like it's not strictly diffusion in the Langevin diffusion/denoising sense (since there are discrete iteration rounds), but instead borrows the idea of "iterative refinement". You drop the causal masking and token-by-token autoregressive generation, and instead start with a bunch of text and propose a series of edits at each step? On one hand dropping the causal masking over token sequence means that you don't have an objective that forces the LLM to learn a representation sufficient to "predict" things as normally thought, but on the flipside there is now a sort of causal masking over _time_, since each iteration depends on the previous. It's a neat tradeoff.

Subthread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43851429 also has some discussion

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#188

Look into groq.com guys. some good models at similar speed to inception labs

It's faster inference because of the Hardware (LPUs), here the question is about architectures (AR or Diffusions)

I realize that, but it can be used now with many models in real-life situations. I just wanted to mention it if someone doesn't know it.

Re: Mercury: Commercial-scale diffusion language model

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's easy and cheap. Like how many products use a Raspberry Pi or ESP32 when an ATtiny would do.

How in the world is this easy and cheap? Are you planning to run this LLM inside the vending machine? Or are you planning to send those prompts to a remote LLM somewhere?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN