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We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

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Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#181

Post by cyanydeez »

no_wizard wrote: post #169
dijit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that we fought so hard against pop-ups throughout the 90's and 2000's only to re-implement pop-ups in javascript as soon as we could.

I have always wondered what the web would be like if we added the scripting language later and only solidified CSS and HTML for the first 15 years or so. I wonder if things would actually be better overall. I’m not going to argue that having a scripting language for the web was a mistake, it definitely isn’t on the whole, but I think having it come at a more mature point for the web might have helped stave off a lot…

socialism. that's what we're talking about. No one every said, "Should we try to make the internet a publish good?"

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#182

Post by netsharc »

ujkhsjkdhf234 wrote: post #90

I have been groaning about income inequality a lot but it is amazing how much of this can be explained by it. People do not have the disposable income to spend on services so you make people pay with attention. Give them the carrot for free so they don't notice. On top of that, the product is free so there is no expectation of support for the end user. You're getting it for free so what are you complaining about?

In the ancient times there was an ISP selling Internet access where the catch is, you dial up via their program, and this program would have an always-on-top window showing ads...

Then again, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube started "You pay for it with your attention (and your data)" and only later have they implemented payment for being ad-free, although with Zuck's properties, the EU forced it.

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#183

Post by MiddleEndian »

ujkhsjkdhf234 wrote: post #90

I have been groaning about income inequality a lot but it is amazing how much of this can be explained by it. People do not have the disposable income to spend on services so you make people pay with attention. Give them the carrot for free so they don't notice. On top of that, the product is free so there is no expectation of support for the end user. You're getting it for free so what are you complaining about?

Nothing to do with income equality, organizations will show whatever ads they can get away with. I paid Microsoft thousands of dollars for my Microsoft laptop. The hardware and form factor are admittedly pretty fantastic. But in spite of this, Microsoft is still determined to try (and fail) to show me ads.

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#184

Post by wizzwizz4 »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #157
pavel_lishin wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes, we're all temporarily-displaced millionaires.

You surely won't become one by griping about the unfairness of other people's success to a bunch of strangers. 500k new millionaires in 2023 in the US. Why can't you be one of them in a coming year?

That's about forty times my annual salary, ignoring expenses. Living like a miser for my entire working life, I could become a millionaire – though not a multimillionaire.

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#185

Post by doublerabbit »

no_wizard wrote: post #169
dijit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that we fought so hard against pop-ups throughout the 90's and 2000's only to re-implement pop-ups in javascript as soon as we could.

I have always wondered what the web would be like if we added the scripting language later and only solidified CSS and HTML for the first 15 years or so. I wonder if things would actually be better overall. I’m not going to argue that having a scripting language for the web was a mistake, it definitely isn’t on the whole, but I think having it come at a more mature point for the web might have helped stave off a lot…

TCL was to be javascript but didn't happen. Google offered to sell Google to Yahoo and AltaVista $1m for Google, but didn't happen.

I wish to think all these things exist in a alternative universe and we've just not constructed the time-portal yet.

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#186

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

no_wizard wrote: post #169
dijit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that we fought so hard against pop-ups throughout the 90's and 2000's only to re-implement pop-ups in javascript as soon as we could.

I have always wondered what the web would be like if we added the scripting language later and only solidified CSS and HTML for the first 15 years or so. I wonder if things would actually be better overall. I’m not going to argue that having a scripting language for the web was a mistake, it definitely isn’t on the whole, but I think having it come at a more mature point for the web might have helped stave off a lot…

I think what would have happened if the web didn't have scripting languages was that you would be forced to download java applets... which now can also run on javascript/wasm coming full circle.

Also, java's dominance I guess was the reason that javascript is named after inspiration of java.

What you are asking for are static pages which already exists and most people do use static pages due to it being very easy to deploy on github pages etc. , though I wonder we would've way more abundance of static pages as compared to non static pages, like there are some pages which could've been static but they aren't.

Though I still think the difference would've existed & it could've been net positive IDK, I just like to go create websites as apps which can be booted on any pc,device without worrying about anything, installing and running it would likely require a setup and it would've been a bigger hassle as well.

And well noone's stopping you from doing it right now. There's gopher and gemini if you are interested.

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#187

Post by sershe »

no_wizard wrote: post #169
dijit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that we fought so hard against pop-ups throughout the 90's and 2000's only to re-implement pop-ups in javascript as soon as we could.

I have always wondered what the web would be like if we added the scripting language later and only solidified CSS and HTML for the first 15 years or so. I wonder if things would actually be better overall. I’m not going to argue that having a scripting language for the web was a mistake, it definitely isn’t on the whole, but I think having it come at a more mature point for the web might have helped stave off a lot…

I dunno, I think it was a net negative by a large margin. 1) html only Gmail shows that pretty advanced, well made apps are possible without scripting; 2) There are very few web apps that without JavaScript wouldn't just be implemented as native without loss of convenience; 3) OTOH for simple apps and sites JavaScript adds inconvenience (non standard links breaking browser features etc), security risks, compatibility issues, massive bloat and tracking.

Nothing like 3 paragraphs of text that requires downloading 2 megabytes of crap, runs code from 20 sketchy looking domains, takes 15 seconds to load, cannot be linked to, and demands you upgrade your browser. As a consolation you can have slightly slower maps in browser instead of downloading an app, once.

I think web scripting is probably THE worst technology ever invented in the IT field. "If I ruled the world", a full ban would be better than its current state; or some AMA on steroids (+Jones act) making JavaScript developers extremely rare and well paid, so that it was limited to the best (as determined by the market) uses with better quality.

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#188

Post by doublerabbit »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #186
no_wizard wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered what the web would be like if we added the scripting language later and only solidified CSS and HTML for the first 15 years or so. I wonder if things would actually be better overall. I’m not going to argue that having a scripting language for the web was a mistake, it definitely isn’t on the whole, but I think having it come at a more mature point for the web might have helped stave off a lot…

I think what would have happened if the web didn't have scripting languages was that you would be forced to download java applets... which now can also run on javascript/wasm coming full circle. Also, java's dominance I guess was the reason that javascript is named after inspiration of java. What you are asking for are static pages which already exists and most people do use static pages due to it being very easy to…

> Also, java's dominance I guess was the reason that javascript is named after inspiration of java.

Very loosely, was named that was as an marketing ploy as Java was the new language at the time.

JavaScript is actually ECMAScript or a v.close direlect of. Originally it was called Mocha, and then relabeled to LiveScript and during the NetScape / Sun Microsystems thing, changed itself to JavaScript and Oracle carried it on from there.

It has some quite interesting history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript#History

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#189

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

I think the problem is, I feel like most ads are so empty,hollow & fraudful on the internet...

I am okay with ads, if they aren't all the above.

But I don't know what the Algorithm overlord serves me as an Ad, so I use Ublock Origin.

I actually think ads should probably be changed from paid promotion to actually use that money on such a good level of ad that even if you release it as a standalone video for example, people would want to watch it.

And I think people are doing it, I still listen to this Splendor Song Chalta rahe because of how great the music of this ad is.

But Most ads are of frauds trying to sell you a get rich quick scheme etc. (atleast I feel like every ad wants to sell me a course?), and I don't want to be the fraud's shitty course's next victim, I hate such course sellers so much that I kind of want to punch them through the video just thinking how the whole economy of ads is generally revolving around these frauds..., and how they make money is by scamming innocent individuals.

All of this while building a privacy nightmare, a dystopia.

No thanks. I am going to keep ads off of any of my services to a higher level of degree though I do imagine that most people don't donate shit & I don't even think that in businesses, the real money are in normal clients because they require free tier and way too much hassle for like 10$?, but rather business clients (B2B).

Though I also feel this moral obligation to open source whatever I build.. but then businesses can simply self host it, maybe I should probably only release it as fair source?

IDK, the whole system boils down to money, I can be only so good a person as the constraint of money requires me to. If money is low, morality has a higher probability of being ignored... , IDK, there is too much competition, sometimes unworthy,sometimes not, but still too much competition on a lot of ideas and they have not much differences so they try to do ads...

Re: We're building a dystopia just to make people click on ads [video]

#190

Post by philistine »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #186
no_wizard wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered what the web would be like if we added the scripting language later and only solidified CSS and HTML for the first 15 years or so. I wonder if things would actually be better overall. I’m not going to argue that having a scripting language for the web was a mistake, it definitely isn’t on the whole, but I think having it come at a more mature point for the web might have helped stave off a lot…

I think what would have happened if the web didn't have scripting languages was that you would be forced to download java applets... which now can also run on javascript/wasm coming full circle. Also, java's dominance I guess was the reason that javascript is named after inspiration of java. What you are asking for are static pages which already exists and most people do use static pages due to it being very easy to…

A static page has nothing to do at all with the discussion.

There’s nothing preventing me from adding globs of nightmare JavaScript to my static website to try and chase engagement.

What’s stopping the people making static pages is not technical, it’s cultural.

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