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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#181

Post by [deleted] »

koolba wrote: post #158
miltonlost wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, what a choice! Imagine, having a gun to your head and saying "but i had a choice!" In no way can you say that these people, given no legal advocates, chose to bring their children, or at least freely chose.

Being eventually forced to decide whether to leave your child behind or take them with you out of the USA is a direct consequence of the choice to illegally enter the country. Are you suggesting we never deport parents under any circumstance? Having a citizen child is not some get-out-deportation-free card.

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#182

Post by tastyfreeze »

retzkek wrote: post #132
sanderjd wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the children's citizenship was solely one of birthright Under the US Constitution, this is not a distinction. What you're looking for is just "the children's citizenship" without this qualifier that signifies nothing under the law. The better alternative is to aggressively enforce employment laws against employers . Immigrants come here and stay here to work.

And then, what? Are citizens beating down the doors to do these jobs but getting out-competed by migrants? Are these the same citizens who are lining up to do sweatshop labor when manufacturing “returns” to the US? If undocumented workers are finding productive work in an economy with low unemployment then the problem is that the government is not facilitating them gaining legal status.

The problem would be minimum wage and insurance requirements for employing citizens. There are plenty of citizens that would work those jobs but nobody would hire them because they cost too much. What you are arguing for is to continue allowing people to come here so employers can pay them less than a citizen is legally required to be paid. Once they become legal employers no longer want to employ them for the same reason they don't want to hire citizens.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#183

Post by computerthings »

OutOfHere wrote: post #157
acdha wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just dishonest. In the past, the rule of law applied. The law is not perfect or kind, but there was a process where people could defend themselves and egregious violations of U.S. law like this would be avoided. It wouldn’t be the child being “separated from their parents”, it would be the family choosing to go together OR the family choosing to have their child live with relatives. The case we heard about yeste…

That's an unfortunate incident. As per my understanding, the father can technically go get the child back while the child is under the age of 16, using just the child's US birth certificate, but only through the land border. I understand that this can be difficult since traveling from Honduras to a US-Mexico land border crossing could not be too easy.

[dead]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#184

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

margalabargala wrote: post #113
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, this kind of deportation and treatment of prisoners/detainees has been happening forever. Another assertion without any justification or data. > Remember the "kids in cages" saga? Yes, of course, and that's the point. There was huge outcry then, and that cruel policy was implemented by the same person responsible for this policy. It doesn't make sense to say "this has been happening forever" and then bring up a…

Much as I detest the current administration, the parent comment is correct. While things under both Trump administrations did get mildly worse than they were under his Democrat predecessors, they were plenty bad under Obama and Biden as well. You're talking about bringing up examples from 2017-2020; it turns out, plenty of the examples that were brought up back then, were in fact from the Obama years. Example: https:…

Let's look at your own link:

> The story featured photos taken by AP’s Ross D. Franklin at a center run by the Customs and Border Protection Agency in Nogales, Arizona. One photo shows two unidentified female detainees sleeping in a holding cell. The caption refers to U.S. efforts to process 47,000 unaccompanied children at the Nogales center and another one in Brownsville, Texas.

I don't know how else you're supposed to handle 47,000 unaccompanied children when there simply aren't the facilities to hold them all, e.g. in foster homes. I think that is fundamentally different than deporting US citizens.

And yes, when it comes to Trump's first term, I don't really see anything wrong with keeping unaccompanied children in detention centers, at least temporarily. The much bigger issue I had was the specific policy of separating families.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#185

Post by wslh »

gpm wrote: post #147
afavour wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to describe them as choosing to do anything: > ICE held the families incommunicado, refusing or failing to respond to multiple attempts by attorneys and family members to contact them. In one instance, a mother was granted less than one minute on the phone before the call was abruptly terminated when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number. What would they do, leave their child in an ICE fa…

They would transfer custody to an individual who was allowed to remain in the US. This had been organized in the case of at least one of the US citizens deported (expelled?) here.

Easy to explain, traumatic to experiment.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#186

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

sswatson wrote: post #44
somenameforme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

The phrase "solely one of birthright" suggests the diminishment of the citizenship of certain people. That is not how citizenship works: no one is less of a citizen than anyone else. The most objectionable part here — by far — is not the deportation of the parents, but the deportation of citizens and the lack of due process. The alternative being proposed is that if ICE is going to deport the parents of US citizen ch…

US hospitals do not have magical pixie dust to grant US citizenship.

This is why birthright as a legal concept is a diminishment of citizenship for all those who hold it.

Parents pass on the shared history, values, and national culture to their kids. Parents are those who give value to US citizenship.

Not coming out of a belly, that happens to be inside a US hospital.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#187

Post by bdangubic »

preommr wrote: post #177
bko wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Claude > According to a Migration Policy Institute report, the deportation system dramatically changed over the past 19 years - moving from a judicial system prior to 1996 where most people facing deportation had immigration court hearings, to a system during Obama's administration where 75 percent of people removed did not see a judge before being deported. You have to understand that most what you read about o…

Can I point out that this administration has gone out of it's way to flaunt it's disregard for the law and constitutional norms? Is anyone buying that the US can't pressure El Salvador to get back someone it wants? Anyone in doubt that it's a backroom deal in defiance of due process? There's a reason why trust in the ruling administration is so important, because otherwise the system breaks down. Any time any questio…

Is anyone buying that the US can't pressure El Salvador to get back someone it wants?

Nope, America has become so weak under the new rule that now when El Salvador says something America has to shut up and obey… It is what it is… :)

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#188

Post by pessimizer »

rsfern wrote: post #179
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

One thing I don’t understand is how this is even a choice the parents have the legal right to make, assuming their US citizen children do not have passports (I don’t know if the answer to that is publicly known). Can a child legally be taken out of the country without a passport and some kind of verifications?

I think the US government seizing the birthright citizen children of undocumented immigrant parents is an extreme position.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#189

Post by spookie »

bko wrote: post #154
anikan_vader wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due Process is being denied to US citizens, who are being removed from the country without the opportunity for them or their parents to consult an attorney.

From Claude > According to a Migration Policy Institute report, the deportation system dramatically changed over the past 19 years - moving from a judicial system prior to 1996 where most people facing deportation had immigration court hearings, to a system during Obama's administration where 75 percent of people removed did not see a judge before being deported. You have to understand that most what you read about o…

The issue isn't about the administration. It's about that this can happen.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#190

Post by mayneack »

somenameforme wrote: post #30
clusterfook wrote: post #2

> But for interesting HN discussion... anyone got any juice on why this is happening. Is there orders going down the chain of command from the president to do this sort of thing. Was this behaviour always there but less reported before? Are they more emboldened by the current environment?

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

> That's not only completely unrealistic

I don't see how it's unrealistic.

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