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NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

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Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea that seems to be a common theme with people. Nothing is bigger than them or more important than their own personal mental health. I can't take it myself so I'm just going to roll over and not stand for any principle or fight for any cause because that's just too much for me to handle. And besides you're just one person so what difference is it going to make anyways. Same thing why people don't vote. It's not like…

You can do nothing of value if your mental health is declining. Best thing to do is seek shelter somewhere, for some time, to heal. You may do something of value at a later time. If you allow mental health to deteriorate there may be no comeback, ever.

I disagree with your first statement. People absolutely can and do provide many things of value while the mental health is declining. In fact, being able to provide things of value is often what helps with the mental health. Don't take that away.

Seeking shelter to heal is certainly one good option, but I also encourage everyone who struggles to seek out help. That's not a fight you have to fight alone. If out break your bone, you see a specialist for fractures. If your mental health is damaged, see a specialist for mental health.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting a lot of pushback, but this resonates with me. I guess I have a hard time understanding the value in a "noble departure" rather than just going down swinging. If a shark was eating me, I wouldn't say "welp I'm boned, better just resign from life". I'd punch the shark, until that shark had to fire me from life. Maybe from a PR perspective its somehow better? Idk, I don't see it.

1. The resignation is an important signal to other people that bad things are happening. Not everyone is paying attention; dramatic resignations are events that might help pierce the media veil. 2. At some point, if you can't stop it and they won't fire you, you're a collaborator. There's a point where your noble stance becomes "even though I desperately want not to put people into gas chambers it's better if I'm the…

To support your point, here is a 1975 book: "Resignation in protest : political and ethical choices between loyalty to team and loyalty to conscience in American public life" by Edward Weisband and Thomas M. Franck https://archive.org/details/resignationinpro00weis

From an Amazon review comment: "This book offers an insightful analysis into the history and norms involved in the tradition of resignation in the U.S. and the U.K. Why do the British tend to resign loudly in protest and Americans resign “to spend more time with family” while praising their president? How do these norms benefit and harm their respective systems? The book offered hints at the determinants of these norms. Written shortly after Nixon’s resignation, the principles discussed are enduring."

Some interesting results: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=resignation+in+protest

Including: "Federal technology staffers resign rather than help Musk and DOGE" https://apnews.com/article/doge-elon-musk-federal-government... " More than 20 civil service employees resigned Tuesday from billionaire Trump adviser Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency, saying they were refusing to use their technical expertise to “dismantle critical public services.”"

Disclaimer: A four year NSF grant which my wife was on and which was recently awarded and getting started was just terminated last Friday. The grant was to promote STEM interest in a specific historically-disadvantaged neighborhood in part by helping people (especially kids) see how things that they did everyday were connected to STEM -- with hopes the idea could then be used nationwide to promote STEM learning. It took about four calendar years of her (unpaid) involvement to get that grant -- including the main organization getting cooperation and commitment by many other people in various local groups.

Tangentially related: "The Big Crunch" by David Goodstein (1994) https://web.archive.org/web/20240327073938/https://www.its.c...

==== From there:

I believe it is a serious mistake to think of our system of education as a pipeline leading to Ph.D's in science or in anything else. For one thing, if it were a leaky pipeline, and it could be repaired, then as we've already seen, we would soon have a flood of Ph.D's that we wouldn't know what to do with. For another thing, producing Ph.Ds is simply not the purpose of our system of education. Its purpose instead is to produce citizens capable of operating a Jeffersonian democracy, and also if possible, of contributing to their own and to the collective economic well being. To regard anyone who has achieved those purposes as having leaked out of the pipeline is silly. Finally, the picture doesn't work in the sense of a scientific model: it doesn't make the right predictions. We have already seen that, in the absence of external constraints, the size of science grows exponentially. A pipeline, leaky or otherwise, would not have that result. It would only produce scientists in proportion to the flow of entering students.

I would like to propose a different and more illuminating metaphor for American science education. It is more like a mining and sorting operation, designed to cast aside most of the mass of common human debris, but at the same time to discover and rescue diamonds in the rough, that are capable of being cleaned and cut and polished into glittering gems, just like us, the existing scientists. It takes only a little reflection to see how much more this model accounts for than the pipeline does. It accounts for exponential growth, since it takes scientists to identify prospective scientists. It accounts for the very real problem that women and minorities are woefully underrepresented among the scientists, because it is hard for us, white, male scientists to perceive that once they are cleaned and cut and polished, they will look like us. It accounts for the fact that science education is for the most part a dreary business, a burden to student and teacher alike at all levels of American education, until the magic moment when a teacher recognizes a potential peer, at which point it becomes exhilarating and successful. Above all, it resolves the paradox of Scientific Elites and Scientific Illiterates. It explains why we have the best scientists and the most poorly educated students in the world. It is because our entire system of education is designed to produce precisely that result.

====

RIP Dr. David Gooodstein. I enjoyed your writing and your "Mechanical Universe" videos that helped people learn physics in a fun way. Sad to see your Caltech faculty website is no more, but thank goodness for the Internet Archive. Makes me a bit sad I turned down admission at Caltech and my chance to study with you.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#183
post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

If you stay it then becomes your job to do things you disagree with, even if you are attempting to have some mitigating effect.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this isn't the tyrannical government (disappearing people, destroying public services even the Dept of Education, deliberately dismantling checks and balances, ...) the 2A was specifically created for, then what would be? And if the 2A isn't about countering tyrannical government, what IS it for?

I’m not from the USA, but as far as I understand isn’t education the purview of the states? And anyway, if you feel that strongly about it, go round up an armed militia and see how far you get. You’re going to need the support of a not insignificant fraction of your fellow citizens, so you’d better get your story straight. That is to say, you’d better have a rigorous alternative you think will persuade others, and yo…

[deleted]

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has three branches of government. If you believe the NSF is independent then you are implicitly agreeing with those who claim there is a fourth 'deep state' branch of government that operates without accountability. Separately: I cited the law that says the president can fire the head of the NSF. So I'm not sure why you'd conclude that any disagreement would be a problem for the president.

Nah, people have got to stop buying into this unitary executive stuff! Independent agencies have oversight and accountability. Congress can do whatever they want with them whenever they want. I think it's imminently reasonable to say that agencies shouldn't be independent of the executive, and that's the default if the legislation passed by Congress (and signed by the current executive!) doesn't specify otherwise. Bu…

I agree but only to the point that an independent agency setup by Congress exercises powers granted Congress by the Constitution and does not conflict with powers explicitly granted to other branches.

(And it's pretty unclear to me how the NSF, which is ultimately a method for Congress to spend money, could relate to any Executive powers)

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#186
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comply but leak the truth to the media. Comply in a maximally obstructive way. Comply just enough to not get fired but not as much as someone who may be more inclined to please their boss. Enlist other opposition and find ways to multiply your obstructive compliance into other departments. There's tons of "how-to" guides on how to maliciously comply with work demands without getting fired.

It's hard to "maliciously comply" or be obstructive to someone giving you 55% less budget. They just... give you less money. That's it. I guess you could slow down the firing process for a bit? That would be a minor obstruction for a short period of time. Then what? Anyways, "how-to" guides on malicious compliance probably don't tackle situations where an external team, acting on behalf of the president , come into y…

Congress is the body that decides budget, not the President. Convince Congress and you will win budget, and legislative directives to accomplish specific tasks. Putting a man on the moon required Congress.

People are now routinely absolving GOP Congress critters, when they are the actual decision makers.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this isn't the tyrannical government (disappearing people, destroying public services even the Dept of Education, deliberately dismantling checks and balances, ...) the 2A was specifically created for, then what would be? And if the 2A isn't about countering tyrannical government, what IS it for?

Trump was elected on deporting illegals, closing the Dept of Education, removing men from women's sports and to stop sending money overseas. The insular HN community doesn't understand this is what the majority of American voters want. Many of us are very happy with the direction things have been moving.

Deportations, I could understand. But extraction to a foreign concentration camp without a sentence or any legal recourse? That is just utterly cruel -- even monstrous. If the majority of American voters want that, then that's what they are, full stop.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#188
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment doesn't make sense if you're aware of the content of the guides under discussion. Subversion is the goal of them. To be successful requires time and not getting found out. It requires plausible deniability.

Cool, how does the NSF director subvert with plausible deniability?

The other Trump malingerers are giving adept examples of how to ape compliance while going completely against the law. Complying with the law in contravention of DOGE wishes should be simple in comparison.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two problems: - How can you fight from the inside against people who can get you fired at will? I think it's more effective to fight from the outside. - Science requires a lot of honesty, trust and assumes people generally act in good faith. So Scientists are not well equipped for political fights against hardcore ideologues. Just look at climate or vaccine denial.

It's funny you say science requires a lot of honesty and trust, then point at what happened in the past 5 years. Very few people believe "safe and effective" was telling the truth when it neither stopped someone from getting sick or from passing the virus on to other people. Now the lack of trust is spilling over into other v's that have been effective in eradicating past ailments like polio and measles. The "scienti…

It's not "spilling over" as some kind of inevitable process. The President nominated and the Senate confirmed a health secretary who works hard to cultivate mistrust of vaccines. The scientists didn't make them do that.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#190

Anonymous. May have. That appear. Knowledgeable source. Guessing or mind reading passes as journalism and that's frustrating. What do we know? Budget cut and resignation.

I have no problem with such claims. It comes down to who says they have the sources and how often they have been right in the past. When Rudy Giuliani says “I have evidence but I can’t show it to you” you can be certain he is lying. When Jeffrey Goldberg says he was texted war plans you can believe him. In this case you can click on the author’s name and review reports from the past and see how those played out.
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