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Pope Francis has died
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Re: Pope Francis has died
#182https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-04/pope-francis... > According to Archbishop Diego Ravelli, Master of Apostolic Ceremonies, the late Pope Francis had requested that the funeral rites be simplified and focused on expressing the faith of the Church in the Risen Body of Christ. Always struck me as a simple man and that likely contributed to people liking him more when compared to his predecessors. RIP.
Pope John Paul II was also extremely popular across the world.
JP2 was liked by catholics (the reasons are interesting and complicated enough that would warrant a long discussion). But Francis was generally well-liked even by the irreligious.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#183It feels kinda wrong to like this post
Re: Pope Francis has died
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pope John Paul II was also extremely popular across the world.
His global appeal was real, but his decision to give Opus Dei and similar conservative Catholic networks special status under the Vatican had serious consequences. Elevating Escrivá to sainthood and creating a personal prelature for Opus Dei handed them unmatched moral authority—authority they used to push back on women’s autonomy, justify discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, and quietly influence politics from Spai…
Even in Europe Opus Dei has immense influence in certain circles. I've seen first-hand the nefarious effects of that.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#185I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.
A prevalent sentiment. I'd researched popes' policies and statements toward the poor some years back, and he really had no peer going back centuries. Partial exception in the late 1900s, under Leo XIII (1878--1903), in the encyclical Rerum novarum .
Rerum Novarum was the basis of catholic social teaching since, so...
But yes, one thing is statements another is actions, regarding the latter the Latin Church's actions have often not been in keeping with their lofty writings.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
If we ever reach the point where we aren't interested specifically in what prominent elders have to say, we're screwed.
Not every "prominent elder" deserves respect. Certainly not on the basis that men in a smoke filled room elected them the infallible avatar of a God that most people don't even believe in. People are in awe of this latest Pope because his morals were essentially normal and not medieval. The Pope was just a guy in a robe. The world would be much better off if we listened to scientists and scholars - people who at leas…
Francis would have been the first to call himself just a guy in a robe. I’m an atheist and don’t find it difficult to listen to people of all faiths put forward moral philosophy, and I can identify parts that I agree with even if I might disagree that there is any supernatural basis for them. There’s a wide world of thought available that is simply outside the remit of science, and there is a lot to be gained from listening to people who have spent their lives dedicated to that domain, even if some of it is wrong, and even if none of it is founded in peer-reviewed academic papers.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#187@tomhow I understand the intention behind keeping the thread respectful, especially in the context of someone’s death. That said, I find it difficult to fully separate reflections on Pope Francis from reflections on the institution he led. The papacy is not just a personal role—it is deeply representative of the Catholic Church as an institution, with all the historical and present-day weight that carries. It also st…
> similar moderation reminders don't usually appear in threads about other public figures.
Friend, this is not true. "dang" himself has often exhorted posters in this same manner and language when a notable death may attract inconsiderate commentary.
See the search link provided by tomhow in this branch of the same discussion:
Re: Pope Francis has died
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
You used the word indistinguishable, the other person used "deep". You are factually wrong since the ratio of Hamas to Gazan casualties does not represent random targeting even by the worst estimates. You also ignore the possibility of Hamas eventually giving up or some other diplomatic solution being reached. We are a highly technical community, we should be able to debug the situation and find edge cases rather tha…
> You used to word indistinguishable, the other person used "deep". You are factually wrong since the ratio of Hamas to Gazan casualties does not represent random targeting even by the worst estimates. True, I apologize for the misrepresentation; but reasoning is the same. At some point Hamas is too deeply ingrained in Gazawi society for Israel to perfectly excise it. Hamas is the civilian government of Gaza and ther…
> For a point of comparison, after Nazi Germany collapsed the Western allies had German civil servants fill questionnaires to assess their level of involvement; of 3.6 millions surveyed, just 1% were charged as "main culprits" (Hauptschuldige), whereas a third were designated as "followers" (Mitläufer), who basically contributed to the regime's crimes but nontheless got to keep their jobs after the war. I'd argue the allies were way too lenient on Germany, but the current Israeli approach (kill them all) is too extreme and will not work because its objectives are unrealistic.
You're comparing the Allies' actions after WWII concluded with Israel's actions in the midst of conflict.
Are you forgetting the Dresden firebombings?
Are you really suggesting that Israel will continue to "kill them all" if Hamas surrenders? That's not even what Israel is doing now, although they have the military capability to do so if they wished.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#189Re: Pope Francis has died
#190[flagged]
No, he passed away on the second day of Easter: Easter Monday.
Easter Sunday represents the beginning of a long season. There is first an Octave celebrated: eight days, each very much like Easter Sunday itself.
Once the Octave ends, it is still “Eastertide” or the Second Week of Easter.
Pentecost marks the 50th day, (inclusive), and the end of the Easter season, but sets off a rather remarkable chain of new holy days.
So I will be around, wishing you a Happy Easter, even during June
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