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Googler... ex-Googler

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Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#181

Post by Ferret7446 »

abdj8 wrote: post #110

Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hou…

What happens if your company supports billions of dollars in economic output, and a few employees decides to go rogue and sabotage some systems that then causes an international loss of billions of dollars, and possibly property damages and loss of life? If you were the CEO, would you take criminal/financial responsibility for that?

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#182

Post by asadalt »

BlobberSnobber wrote: post #164
asadalt wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that’s very business hostile tbh. I wouldn’t start a company there.

Always someone with a horrible opinion to give in this hellsite

i have had to avoid hiring excellent candidate(s) from EU, just because they would become unflushable if it comes to that.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#183

Post by codr7 »

henry2023 wrote: post #139
Mond_ wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to kick someone while they are down.

I worked at Google, and now I work at derivative finance. No sympathy should be expected when you don’t contribute anything valuable to society.

To an awful lot of people work is food and roof over their heads, and they're lucky if they can manage even that.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#184

Post by ryandrake »

ein0p wrote: post #77
lazide wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is much easier to handle when departing is voluntary. Layoffs, especially surprise ones, are the opposite. For someone young with no dependents, it can be scary but doable. For those with kids? Not so much.

OP spent several years at Google. Kids or no kids, if they managed their finances well, they have a lot of latitude wrt next moves.

Not necessarily. Nobody on HN knows OP’s finances. He might have extended family relying on him. He might have crippling student debt. He might have expensive health problems. Do you know? I don’t.

Also, not all Google employees make great money. People act as though you work there for 5 years and that automatically means you’re off to buy your third house in Monaco.

Point is, he might “manage his finances well” and still be on insecure footing.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#185

Post by torginus »

roncesvalles wrote: post #161
mystifyingpoi wrote: post #137

> Relationships that took me years to cultivate… mostly going to be gone too. I don't want to sound condescending, but if being forced out of the job means end for your relationships built for years, maybe these relationships weren't built as they should. They should have been built with the people as people, not coworkers, and definitely not using company as the communication ground.

Most relationships do not survive being ripped away from the spatial and temporal context in which they were cultivated. How many of your middle school, high school and even college buddies do you still have a relationship with? I think there's some stigma with confronting the fact that relationships are just ephemeral. We are social creatures in the sense that we can cooperate with each other on a task laid in front…

You are right but I think there's a fundamental issue that many people think that 'as long as I keep showing up and doing good work, the powers that be will look out for me'.

By default work relationships work as you advertised. It needs conscious effort on your (and everyone's) part to reframe these relationships as something that's between you and your friends, on your own terms. Consciously hanging out together, talking to each other, doing projects together outside the context of work. Social relationships need to be built up with effort. The company will do this for you, because they enjoy the benefits of a crew that works well together, but if they put in the effort, the relationship will belong to them. You will think that 'I could get slightly more at this other place, but I like my colleagues here', realizing you'd lose the social net if you changed jobs.

I think a huge problem with nerds (like me and probably you), is that we don't understand the fundamental power dynamics that shape society, because we lack the inherent cunning and weren't forced to face down enough hardship to have our illusions shattered until later in life.

Truth is, if there are rules, somebody needs to enforce them. If something nice happens, it does because somebody makes it happen. These things are mental abstractions designed to make your life predictable, but like every abstractions, sometimes things happen that were supposed to be impossible, because the system doesn't work the way you think it does.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#186

Post by throwaway2037 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #62
marcusb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually there is a hidden variable that you don't know. This is frequently the case. I've worked at big employers (comparable in level of corporate-ness to Google if not absolute size) where the layoff process, roughly was: 1. Aggregate layoff target gets set and apportioned amongst functional leaders, then targets cascaded down to the line manager level. 2. Managers fill out a stack ranking spreadsheet for their t…

For some perspective, the bulk of this is simply illegal in the Netherlands, likely other countries in the EU as well: - layoff plans must be communicated ahead of time. Minimum 30 days notice, usually much more - Needs to be negotiated with worker representatives (works council, syndicate if there is one) - LIFO principle for layoffs, newest employees are let go first. Stack ranking not possible - Any kind of discri…

Thank you for sharing this important information. What does a company in the Netherlands do when an employee is underperforming? Do they get "PIP'd" like Amazon? Then, eventually let go with some standard severance package?

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#187

Post by codr7 »

iainmerrick wrote: post #155
grandempire wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what? He’s probably getting fantastic severance so his time is best spent on the next thing. The employer isn’t going to get more work - it’s not wise or safe to let layed off individuals roam around the office.

it’s not wise or safe to let layed off individuals roam around the office. I don’t really buy this. I take it you’re worried about vengeful ex-employees abusing their access privileges to break stuff on the way out? It seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Probably some people would feel vengeful if you do shitty things to them like removing all their access and firing them with no notice whatsoever. Bad employees c…

Agreed, the explanation for why this is standard procedure never made much sense to me.

I just know it feels really shitty on the receiving end.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#188

Post by noisy_boy »

asadalt wrote: post #182
BlobberSnobber wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always someone with a horrible opinion to give in this hellsite

i have had to avoid hiring excellent candidate(s) from EU, just because they would become unflushable if it comes to that.

> just because they would become unflushable if it comes to that

Your choice of verb tells a lot about what you think of your employees.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#189

Post by fzeroracer »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #181
abdj8 wrote: post #110

Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hou…

What happens if your company supports billions of dollars in economic output, and a few employees decides to go rogue and sabotage some systems that then causes an international loss of billions of dollars, and possibly property damages and loss of life? If you were the CEO, would you take criminal/financial responsibility for that?

Does this question also equally apply to the opposite side? If an employee got so angry with how you laid them off and treated them afterwards that they decide to do what they can to damage your company?

Cutting access and having security walk them out is more or less security theater. If an employee really wanted to cause damage the odds are they either already have or will still find a way. In this scenario having generous severance and treating them with respect is likely to better defuse the situation than kicking them out the door.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#190

Post by milesrout »

roncesvalles wrote: post #161
mystifyingpoi wrote: post #137

> Relationships that took me years to cultivate… mostly going to be gone too. I don't want to sound condescending, but if being forced out of the job means end for your relationships built for years, maybe these relationships weren't built as they should. They should have been built with the people as people, not coworkers, and definitely not using company as the communication ground.

Most relationships do not survive being ripped away from the spatial and temporal context in which they were cultivated. How many of your middle school, high school and even college buddies do you still have a relationship with? I think there's some stigma with confronting the fact that relationships are just ephemeral. We are social creatures in the sense that we can cooperate with each other on a task laid in front…

>How many of your middle school, high school and even college buddies do you still have a relationship with?

All the ones that were true friends, and none of the ones that were just friendly acquaintances.

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