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Usability Improvements in GCC 15

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Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#181

Post by perching_aix »

nottorp wrote: post #103
perching_aix wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows key + dot, then type in warning / if it was among the last ones you used, use the arrow keys, and hit Enter to insert it. If you use whatever OS other than Windows, I'm sure there are similar flows available if you search for it. And since it's just Unicode, I'm sure there are numpad based keybinds available too.

why shouldn't i just type grep warning instead of bringing up some GUI that possibly takes forever to initialize? how does it work over ssh? :)

I don't know, you wanted to grep for the emoji.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#182

Post by charcircuit »

mort96 wrote: post #180
charcircuit wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>making it impossible to integrate it back into LLVM Code getting open source is not impossible. Companies do it all of the time because it's expensive to rebase.

Dude you can't just quote a fraction of a sentence and then argue against that fragment. Read the whole sentence. The part about how "the vendor could make their toolchain proprietary" is kinda important.

My comment was about proprietary software being open sourced.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#184

Post by nightfly »

goku12 wrote: post #171
nightfly wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of thinking is what doomed uBlock Origin. I strongly disagree.

Perhaps the users should be given an option to opt out (enabled by default) for such APIs on a per-site basis. That way, users can intervene when they're abused, while their fair use will remain transparent.

This seems like a good compromise. Similar to requesting location information, and/or denying popups after a few have been spawned

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#185

Post by wolvesechoes »

LeFantome wrote: post #161
vbezhenar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gccrs is a rust implementation for gcc. Just because Rust developers don't want their users to be fully free doesn't mean there are any problems with gcc. And clang is developed by Apple which is a huge warning sign by itself.

LLVM/Clang is evolving more quickly than and is a much richer base for innovation than GCC is. LLVM spawned Rust, Swift, and Zig. The most recent GCC languages are Spark and COBOL. One of the reasons that LLVM has been able to evolve so quickly is because of all the corporate contribution it gets. GCC users want Clang/LLVM users to know how dumb they are for taking advantage of all the voluntary corporate investment…

Some slaves were treated well, fed nicely and overall had rather good life. Yet, they remained slaves, so master could take all of that from them at any moment.

But hey, if you try hard to be nice to your master and do not demand anything, for sure they will always treat you well!

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#186

Post by nottorp »

perching_aix wrote: post #181
nottorp wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why shouldn't i just type grep warning instead of bringing up some GUI that possibly takes forever to initialize? how does it work over ssh? :)

I don't know, you wanted to grep for the emoji.

That's what you think?

I wanted something I could grep for easily. Which doesn't seem to be the emoji, since it needs extra software to get on the grep command line...

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#187

Post by alienthrowaway »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #35
dralley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another reason why I'm not a fan of Richard Stallman. Most of the decisions he made over the past 25 years have been self-defeating and led directly to the decline of the influence of his own movement. It's not that "the GCC project" avoided that for ideological reason, Stallman was personally a veto on that issue for years, and his personal objection led to several people quitting the project for LLVM, with a co…

Don't forget that the LLVM folks actually went to GNU and offered it to them, and they failed to pay attention and respond . (It's not even that they responded negatively; they just dropped it on the floor completely.) There's an alternate history where LLVM was a GNU project. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm glad that that didn't happen, even though I have mixed feelings about LLVM being permissively licensed.

Gcc is the flagship of the GNU Project - allowing an endrun of the the spirit of the GPL in gcc was never going to happen. The project paid more attention than you give them credit for because allowing closed source plugins and improvements that use gcc as a frontend is anathema to Free software.

There's an impedance mismatch between people who think gcc should have maximized user utility vs. the actual GNU philosophy. The actions of the gcc project make a lot of sense if you consider the FSF/GNU are monomaniacal about maximizing users freedoms, and not popularity, momentum or other ego-stroking metric.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#188

Post by nottorp »

alisonatwork wrote: post #160
nottorp wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why shouldn't i just type grep warning instead of bringing up some GUI that possibly takes forever to initialize? how does it work over ssh? :)

Emoji selector is fast and works perfectly fine over SSH, it's no different to any other input method that needs to use characters beyond 7-bit ASCII. grep is a bit more iffy. UNIX command line tools seem to be a bit of a crapshoot in how or if they support Unicode, especially if you switch between different systems like Linux, BSD, Cygwin etc. You might need a bit of experimenting with the LANG variable to get it wo…

> that's a win for non-English users of the command line

I am non english. I use ăâîșț. When writing a text document for humans.

I also use :) but not .

I'm still of the opinion that anything not 7-bit ascii doesn't belong in something that may be machine processed. Which includes compiler output.

Edit: hey, HN erased my emoji. The dot was supposed to be the :) emoji style.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#189

Post by wolvesechoes »

azinman2 wrote: post #93
cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without GNU, GPL and Richard Stallman, FOSS would not exist in the first place. The GPL forced companies to make FOSS a thing, whether they liked it or not.

And then the world started moving on, with other licenses that gave even more freedom and flexibility. It was a great start, but you need to adapt or you perish.

As with any other achievement of civilization, younger generations will at some point find why previous ones fought for something and how it sucks to loose it.

But when this realization comes, it will be too late.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#190

Post by JoshTriplett »

alienthrowaway wrote: post #187
JoshTriplett wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that the LLVM folks actually went to GNU and offered it to them, and they failed to pay attention and respond . (It's not even that they responded negatively; they just dropped it on the floor completely.) There's an alternate history where LLVM was a GNU project. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm glad that that didn't happen, even though I have mixed feelings about LLVM being permissively licensed.

Gcc is the flagship of the GNU Project - allowing an endrun of the the spirit of the GPL in gcc was never going to happen. The project paid more attention than you give them credit for because allowing closed source plugins and improvements that use gcc as a frontend is anathema to Free software. There's an impedance mismatch between people who think gcc should have maximized user utility vs. the actual GNU philosoph…

Whether you care about number of users or not, there's value in considering whether what you're doing is actually advancing the cause of Free Software or not.

GCC today has a very interesting license term, the GCC Runtime Library Exception, that makes the use of runtime libraries like libgcc free if-and-only-if you use an entirely Free Software toolchain to compile your code with; otherwise, you're subject to the terms of the GPL on libgcc and similar. That is a sensible pragmatic term, and if they'd come up with that term many years ago, they could have shipped libgccjit and other ways to plug into GCC years ago, and the programming language renaissance that arose due to LLVM might have been built atop GCC instead.

That would have been a net win for user freedoms. Instead, because they were so afraid of someone using an intermediate representation to work around GCC's license, and didn't do anything to solve that problem, LLVM is now the primary infrastructure people build new languages around, and GCC lost a huge amount of its relevance, and people now have less software freedom as a result.

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