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The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

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Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#181

Post by poincaredisk »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #134
hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

> Who would stop that abduction from happening with force? What if the men doing that are police officers? What if they go after your family the day after? Now you understand why the Black Panthers arose: the black community realized that it needed to arm itself to protect against the oppressive power of the state. It could be argued that modern infringements on the Second Amendment are largely a reaction of the gove…

The only thing I see is that having guns everywhere around does nothing to actually stop a country from descending into fascism. Thanks, I'll stay in my region, at least we have no school shootings or violent crime.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#182

Post by UncleOxidant »

UncleMeat wrote: post #150
Yeul wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country top lawyers every once in a while take an interesting case pro bono just because they enjoy having a duel with the State in the courtroom. But I have been thinking about this. Ultimately our entire judicial system is all just words on paper. What happens when the government ignores a court order?

In the US the government is specifically retaliating against law offices that have done this in ways that Trump doesn't like and those offices are largely caving and offering millions of dollars of pro bono work to Trump . Leadership within the Democratic party is saying that Trump ignoring court orders is not really a big deal until they ignore an order from the Supreme Court, as if rulings from district and circuit…

> Leadership within the Democratic party is saying that Trump ignoring court orders is not really a big deal until they ignore an order from the Supreme Court

If (and likely when) the administration ignores an order from the Supreme Court it's going to be too late.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#183

Post by rayiner »

tastyface wrote: post #119
rayiner wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Democracy tends to require a revolution to break free from those authoritarian regimes, to say nothing of thousands (or millions) of deaths along the way. And we're still waiting for Russia, China, Cuba, etc. to reveal their glorious democratic forms. (By your logic, communism must be one of humanity's greatest achievements since it elevated a number of feudal countries to superpower status. Nevermind the millions of…

Many countries transitioned to democracy without a major revolution. And even when they did, virtually all reused the same state infrastructure that was established during the monarchy.

Communism was a failure because it was incompetent. But the authoritarian-capitalist government China has had since the late 1980s was nothing short of a miracle.

In the 1970s, China was as poor per capita as Bangladesh. Today, Bangladesh is still a deeply impoverished country, while China is an advanced middle income economy.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#184

Post by zelda420 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #150
Yeul wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country top lawyers every once in a while take an interesting case pro bono just because they enjoy having a duel with the State in the courtroom. But I have been thinking about this. Ultimately our entire judicial system is all just words on paper. What happens when the government ignores a court order?

In the US the government is specifically retaliating against law offices that have done this in ways that Trump doesn't like and those offices are largely caving and offering millions of dollars of pro bono work to Trump . Leadership within the Democratic party is saying that Trump ignoring court orders is not really a big deal until they ignore an order from the Supreme Court, as if rulings from district and circuit…

This already happened with TikTok. The congressional law had very specific terms for a 90day delay. Trump just signed another 75day extension after the last failed .

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#185

Post by poincaredisk »

dleary wrote: post #117
rayiner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZomfSetCVGTWj1bS9 https://www.cold-takes.com/unraveling-the-evidence-about-vio...

If the population grew from 100k in 1700 to 300k in 1750, and if the homicide rate was right around 2 per 100k, then that would mean that the total number of homicides in New England, over the 50 years span was less than 300. Do you really believe that fewer than 300 murders occurred during this time?

In my country homicide rate per 100k is less than 1. Why is 2 unbelievable? Or do I understand something wrong?

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#186

Post by Viliam1234 »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #134
hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

> Who would stop that abduction from happening with force? What if the men doing that are police officers? What if they go after your family the day after? Now you understand why the Black Panthers arose: the black community realized that it needed to arm itself to protect against the oppressive power of the state. It could be argued that modern infringements on the Second Amendment are largely a reaction of the gove…

> Well......now everyone can see how quickly state power can turn malevolent, and why the Right to Bear Arms matters.

I still don't see how people are today using 2A to defend themselves against the redcaps.

When the state power turns malevolent but many of your neighbors are happy about it, your gun is not going to overthrow the regime (because those neighbors have guns, too).

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#187

Post by hollerith »

dleary wrote: post #117
rayiner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZomfSetCVGTWj1bS9 https://www.cold-takes.com/unraveling-the-evidence-about-vio...

If the population grew from 100k in 1700 to 300k in 1750, and if the homicide rate was right around 2 per 100k, then that would mean that the total number of homicides in New England, over the 50 years span was less than 300. Do you really believe that fewer than 300 murders occurred during this time?

300 murders per year.

The FBI maintains murder statistics for most policing jurisdictions in the US. Many of them are under 2 per 100,000 per year: Sunnyvale, CA; Hercules, CA; Novato, CA, Brookline, MA; the Twin Cities. The rate in Beverly, MA, is 0.946.

Japan's rate is 0.4.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#189

Post by thephyber »

TheCleric wrote: post #162
thephyber wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the year of press cycles where this guy took El Salvador from one of the worst crime rates in the Western Hemisphere to one of the best by liberally arresting anyone he thought might be related to crime gangs? From Wikipedia: > During his presidency, Bukele enacted tough-on-crime policies that scholars have characterized as successfully reducing gang activity and violent crime at the cost of arbitrary ar…

So having a low crime rate is more important than keeping innocent people out of jail?

I didn’t say that, and I even clipped the relevant Wiki article which described the trade-off of law/liberty.
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