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Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

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Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#181

Post by M95D »

znpy wrote: post #173
nine_k wrote: post #12

If systemd is the reason, there are several good distros without systemd (I run Void Linux in particular). If "kubesomething" is the reason, there's no requirement to use it. I think most people don't run it on their home servers. If containers are the reason, then again, they are not a requirement. But they are pretty similar to BSD's jails. I don't think they are particularly complex. FreeBSD has a number of strong…

> If systemd is the reason, there are several good distros without systemd (I run Void Linux in particular). There are people in the FreeBSD camp that actually do advocate for something like systemd in FreeBSD. See "The Tragedy of systemd": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

Is there a text version of that?

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#182

Post by indemnity »

nisa wrote: post #131
giantrobot wrote: post #127

I have tried several times to run FreeBSD on my home servers and every single time it fails to boot let alone run. Each happily runs Linux (with ZFS) all day long with no issues. I know the project is smaller in scope and has less funding than Linux (distros and subprojects included) but it's kind of ridiculous. It's incredibly frustrating to set aside the time to set up a machine only to have the kernel panic half w…

I've also found hardware support lacking. In my case SATA controller threw errors on FreeBSD and worked fine in Linux. It's something that's impossible for FreeBSD through because Linux has much more drivers, testers and eyes for exotic hardware. However there exist hardware compatibility lists and most common hardware is supported very well.

I really wanted to run FreeBSD for my home NUC firewall/router as I like the pf syntax, but had to give up in the end because it couldn’t drive the USB Ethernet adapter at 1 full Gbps speeds, whereas Linux had no problem with the same devices, so NixOS it is.

With the switch of TrueNAS to Linux, I have no more BSD at home, unfortunately.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#183

Post by M95D »

lillecarl wrote: post #40

I started reading but stopped as soon as it was a systemd rant. systemd, while not for everyone is a good for most people .

> systemd, while not for everyone is a good for most people

Are you really sure?

systemd is a tool that automates system configuration with no interaction from the user, and it does it in such a way that the user doesn't have to know how the system works, then the user doesn't want to know, and then no longer actually knows.

When that happens, the user can't make any political decisions about his/her system, the "system" account gets to have higher privileges than "Administrator", the user is no longer the owner of the OS, can't control what the system does, not even what it does with his/her personal data, and finally we all turn into uneducated mindless drones. Oh, wait, we're already there. How did that happen?

Great for company computers ; very bad for users.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#184

Post by indemnity »

briandear wrote: post #2

Curious what “home servers” are really for. I’ve gone decades without needing a home server — what am I missing out on?

I have a few use cases and a few servers for them: My router/firewall is a NUC PC plugged straight into the fibre ONT. It also runs DHCP and DNS (both my home zone and acting as a caching resolver with a huge cache for the wider internet which means really snappy DNS lookups compared to using ISP servers).

My NAS is an eight core server with 64GB ECC ram running a ZFS pool with 8 12TB WD Red Pro drives for storing my collection of curated Linux ISOs, running TrueNAS SCALE, running always-on services inside containers:

- PostgreSQL for a bunch of personal project databases

- TeslaMate collecting data from our EVs into the PostgreSQL database

- Plex for serving up media to the Apple TV

- Tailscale exit node so I can access my home network on the go

- Step CA for managing my personal certificate authority used to issue everything I want to have TLS for with a certificate easily (LetsEncrypt doesn’t work for private network servers)

- Tarsnap for periodically backing up all data, documents and configuration I really do not want to lose

- UniFi controller managing my UniFi APs (four of them)

I’m sure I will have more use cases in the future, but it’s really handy to have always running infrastructure and storage at home you can rely on!

And I don’t spend much time tinkering with it now that it’s set up, it’s just maintenance mode.

From time to time I adjust a few configs or upgrade a hardware component here and there but it’s been stable like this for years (apart from the TrueNAS CORE to SCALE migration which was a bit of a shitshow due to moving from FreeBSD to Linux, had to rebuild all jails into Docker containers).

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#185

Post by wltr »

twelvedogs wrote: post #136
packetlost wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you actually run updates regularly (which you should anyways) it's fine. I did it for years until I switched to NixOS.

yeah, this was my main annoyance with it, i don't log into my server for months at a time so i wanted something without constant updates but other than that it was fine.

I update one of my servers once a year or even longer, and it’s still doing fine with Arch.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#186

Post by vermaden »

sunshine-o wrote: post #22
whalesalad wrote: post #3

I notice FreeBSD admins tend to follow a 'pets not cattle' approach, carefully nurturing individual systems. Linux admins like myself typically prefer the 'cattle not pets' mindset—using infrastructure-as-code where if a server dies, no problem, just spin up another one. Leverage containers. Statelessness. I don't want to spend time meticulously configuring things beyond the core infrastructure my services run on. I…

> Are there any fun lab projects, posts, educational series targeted at FreeBSD? Klara Systems [0], Vermaden [1] and IT Notes [2] seems to be the most active and popular. - [0] https://klarasystems.com/articles/ - [1] https://vermaden.wordpress.com/posts/ - [2] https://it-notes.dragas.net/categories/freebsd/

> - [0] https://klarasystems.com/articles/

I personally wrote several of them :)

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#187

Post by Levitating »

m463 wrote: post #115
nine_k wrote: post #12

If systemd is the reason, there are several good distros without systemd (I run Void Linux in particular). If "kubesomething" is the reason, there's no requirement to use it. I think most people don't run it on their home servers. If containers are the reason, then again, they are not a requirement. But they are pretty similar to BSD's jails. I don't think they are particularly complex. FreeBSD has a number of strong…

To me arch linux is the middle ground between a too-much-complexity "fat" distribution like ubuntu or debian and a-minimal-but-eclectic-freebsd. the arch wiki is VERY comprehensive, linux has a huge community, and arch forced you to understand much just by stepping through the installation process.

FreeBSD and ArchLinux do not need to be compared in this context.

FreeBSD is an extremely simple and stable system. All packages/ports for which are tailored to integrate well with the networking stack, logging etc of FreeBSD. FreeBSD has daily/weekly/monthly cronjobs per default that runs a number of cleanup tasks and security updates and emails the result. It also has email setup correctly per default.

And FreeBSD only gets a few patch updates a year and a new major release every two years. The security patches it will download for you and then inform you over email.

ArchLinux needs constant maintenance to be updated, often requiring manual intervention. The packages are unchanged from upstream and thus do not integrate that well will the system at all, often requiring much more configuration. ArchLinux can be run as a server, and I have an do for years now, but it isn't made for it and it does require attention. ArchLinux is about getting bleeding edge software packaged as-is from upstream, and it's about allowing the user to tinker and customize. In that sense FreeBSD and ArchLinux can be considered opposites.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#188

Post by Levitating »

lillecarl wrote: post #40

I started reading but stopped as soon as it was a systemd rant. systemd, while not for everyone is a good for most people .

The only reason I DON'T use FreeBSD as much as I wish is because it doesn't have systemd. In my opinion a good versatile init system for managing daemons is a must-have for a server OS.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#189

Post by rollcat »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #26
rollcat wrote: post #24

I have mixed feelings about FreeBSD. Some stuff is genuinely good: major/minor release branches, the best ZFS experience you can get OOB, actual man pages, overall a lot "cleaner" than most Linux distros. OTOH when you compare it to e.g. OpenBSD (or in many instances, even Linux), it's an actual mess. The default install leaves you browsing thru the handbook to get simple things to work; it has three ( three !) disti…

> the split between /usr/local/etc and /etc constantly leaves you guessing where to find a particular config file; Isn't it just that /etc is the base OS and /usr/local is all packages added on top?

The base/packages split is one of the main reasons why I appreciate the BSDs (that includes macOS). However /usr/local/etc in particular violates several assumptions:

- I can make /usr read-only, exclude it from backups, put it on an NFS share, or otherwise treat it as immutable during normal operation;

- I can nuke /usr/local any time, fall back on the base system, and reinstall packages from there;

- I can put /etc in version control and track all configuration changes;

- I don't need to think whether to look for /etc/nginx or /usr/local/etc/nginx, this also simplifies automation like scripts or Ansible roles; etc

Notably, OpenBSD takes the effort to ensure all packages install their configs in /etc.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#190

Post by Torpenn »

steeleduncan wrote: post #112

> Complicated stuff = high probably of failure This is a myth. The 787 has about 60 million miles of wiring in it. It is vastly more complicated than an airliner from the 1940s, and it also much, much safer. Poorly engineered technology fails, not necessarily complex technology > secondary problem is the stacking of abstraction layers docker / kubersomething Then don't use Kubernetes or Docker? They aren't mandatory

No this is a common rule in industry in particular.

The more components you add a component into to a defined system (excepted for redundancy purpose), the higher the probability of failure.

This is exactly why Toyota provides tier A car in term of reliabily and majority of European / US car full of failures by adding a lot of useless gadget.

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