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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#181

Post by nozzlegear »

efitz wrote: post #164

It is trivial today to get whatever level of fluoride is recommended for dental health, via toothpaste. So there is no compelling need to fluoridate as there exist viable alternatives to achieve the same that fluoridation is for any other purpose than dental health. In the USA, dental care is not covered by public insurance, and is an optional add-on to insurance through one’s employer. So without addressing at all w…

I think one thing you're not considering (especially when you say we should vote with our feet) is poverty. It’s true that fluoride toothpaste is widely available, but for people in poverty, of which there are millions in our country, basic hygiene items like toothpaste and a toothbrush aren’t guaranteed. Neither is it guaranteed that everyone has a perfect daily brushing habit like the dentist tells us; there are people who don't brush every day, or even every week.

You talked about dental care not being covered by public insurance — is it not worth considering that some basic level of dental care is already being applied to the country via fluoridation? It's a minimal, cost-effective way to prevent tooth decay at scale. Fluoridated water is one of the few dental protections available to everyone regardless of their income.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#183

Post by thayne »

jiggawatts wrote: post #44

I initially dismissed it as the same category of stupid as anti-vax beliefs, but it turns out that there are a decent amount of good studies showing a link between fluoride in water and (slightly) lower IQ when pregnant mothers ingest the fluoride. Note that there is no significant effect after birth. The idea is to remove fluoride from water and advise pregnant women to use fluoride-free toothpaste. Everyone else ca…

> Everyone else can get enough fluoride from modern toothpastes, or regular dentist treatments.

The advantage of putting it in water is that it ensures all children get it, not just the children whose parents can and do make sure they brush their teeth and go to the dentist.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#184

Post by bennettnate5 »

jedberg wrote: post #37
rayiner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utah has among the best schools in the nation: https://www.reddit.com/r/Utah/comments/1idrt6j/utah_spends_t... It also has among the happiest citizens: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/09/09/utah-mental-health-h... It has the highest economic mobility in the country: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2023/12/22/utah-top... Despite being filled with guns, it’s got a homicide rate only a little higher than Cana…

A lot of that is due to the Mormons. While they tend to vote Republican, they are some of the biggest socialists out there. They believe in giving 10% of their income to the church (and enforce it!). Then they redistribute to their poorest members in the form of free private education at all pre-college levels and highly subsidized college as well. And with food banks, free or subsidized medical services, and whole b…

> and only applies to their believers (who happen to concentrate in Utah)

Worth noting here that the church additionally spends north of $1 billion annually on humanitarian aid across the globe [1] (separate from the redistributions to the poor mentioned by OP). Aid is provided independent of religious affiliation.

[1] https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/humanitarian-...

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#185

Post by nozzlegear »

ews wrote: post #173
freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

The US rarely looks into how other countries solve problems. (i.e. Universal Healthcare, High Speed Trains and so), this is the sad part of "American Exceptionalism"

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#186

Post by neRok »

freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

Banning its addition is a step beyond — but in Queensland, Australia for example, the state government no longer mandates its inclusion, and thus the local councils are able to set their own policy.

> While more than 90 per cent of Australians have access to fluoridated water, that figure is significantly lagging in the sunshine state, where local councils have ultimate authority over whether it is adopted.

> A decade after the Newman government handed responsibility for fluoridated drinking water to local governments, 51 out of 77 have opted out. That means about 28 per cent of Queenslanders do not have fluoridated drinking water

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-24/fluoride-dental-care-...

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#187

Post by Spooky23 »

crazygringo wrote: post #105
Jimmc414 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What do you mean? There's literally tons of evidence. Do you think fluoride doesn't actually reduce cavities?

You can’t win. Freedom, IQ, precious bodily fluids. There’s no end to the nonsense.

My city started fluoridating a few years ago. The crazy was off the chart, they’re still active. NYC has fluoridated for 60 years, you’d think someone would have figured out that the entire city is dumber.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#188

Post by wokwokwok »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #163
UltraSane wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not real debate, just some people who don't understand how chemistry works.

I'd really like to hear your take

Talk to your dentist.

They are experts in this field, and, unlike “random person on the internet who spent 2 minutes on google”, have informed opinions on this topic.

If you want a serious discussion on why fluoride is good or bad, that’s where you need to go.

Random person on the internet is very easy to disagree with, because we’re all idiots right? It’s a very easy lazy way of self confirmation.

…but if you are serious about critically considering the issue and facing your own biases, talk to an actual topic expert.

My dentist told me he had carefully reviewed the literature and determined to his satisfaction that public fluoridated water was in the best interests of public health, currently. He offered to share some reading that he was convinced by.

You can’t really ask for more that that.

Discussing this here is a bit like protesting by posting on social media; yes, I suppose it’s better than doing nothing and not engaging with the topic at all… but only barely, and not in any meaningful way.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#189

Post by osigurdson »

timeon wrote: post #76
elif wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fluoridation, imperial measurement, 20% tips, taxes added at the register, and circumcision are the weirdest things Americans think everyone does.

> 20% tips Is this real?

In Canada, these days, even Subway expects a tip. It is insane.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#190

Post by nozzlegear »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #92
singpolyma3 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this and it doesn't fit in my brain. They never drink water? Ever?

Something like 10% of SNAP benefits go towards purchases of soda pop and other sugary drinks made by PepsiCo/etc.

Are SNAP recipients not allowed to enjoy a soda at all? I really don't understand the problem with this. Society acts like signing up for SNAP involves signing a contract to lose 100 pounds and only eat iceberg lettuce or something.
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