Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo • Hacker News Board

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#181

Post by mullingitover » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:48 PM UTC

pclmulqdq wrote: post #76

mullingitover wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of getting tangled up in social issues It's not that they're getting 'tangled up', it's that reactionary activists (whose ultimate goal is repealing the Civil Rights Act entirely) use strawman social issues as a wedge and the press is led around by the nose parroting these controversies that are brazenly ginned up. Liberal politicians don't really have a great strategy for this because the majority of media…

There is a fringe wing of the democrat party that loves social issues and is an outsized fraction of the "community organizing" base they use to do things like canvassing and other forms of volunteering. These people need politicians to at least prove their "purity" on social issues, even on issues that are very unpopular. This is analogous to the hyper-religious wing of the republican party. They also like to get in…

There's a lot of effort to conflate basic civil liberties with fringe social issues, tie them together, and burn down the civil liberties because they're just 'fringe social issues.'

There are some fringe issues supported by some democrats, but the real base of the party is black voters and their civil rights are the real target. Conservatives still haven't forgotten about being forced to end segregation in schools, nor have they giving up on trying to re-segregate.

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#182

Post by seryoiupfurds » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:49 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #46

I've grown a little bit more skeptical of what can realistically be achieved by the passive nature of YIMBY-ism. In Portland, they passed some radical new zoning laws a few years ago that allowed anyone, anywhere the ability to zone ADUs on their property. And the cost to get permits is almost nothing. I have lots of friends and family in the area with property. But not a single one has added an ADU. It seems like it…

As a YIMBY, ADUs are an introductory "first step" policy that should obviously be legal, but were never expected to have any real effect.

True YIMBY policy would be zoning for six-story apartments by-right citywide, with density going up to 20 stories near rapid transit.

But even policies that sound great on paper are often sabotaged by cities with unworkable affordability requirements that prevent anything from being built.

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#183

Post by MattGaiser » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:49 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #144

MattGaiser wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this idea of Bernie positions being popular outside the Democratic Party gone anywhere? Has it survived an election? I’ve heard it frequently claimed, but where has a progressive Dem won where a moderate didn’t? They seem to lose badly. The Sanders people were all in on Paula Jean Swearengin in WV and even tried to primary Manchin with her. WV has all the supposed demographics Sanders appeals to. White working cl…

There is a huge market for populism in the US electorate. You would be floored by how many Obama 2008 voters are now Trump voters. Obama beat Clinton in the 2008 primaries and people believed he did it by running to left of her. People thought he was going to burn for-profit health care to the ground and deliver a single payer system, and that he'd throw the bankers who triggered the 2008 crisis in prison. The disapp…

The market only seems for the hurting other people part.

Obama voters who voted for Trump didn’t vote for better healthcare. They voted to hurt healthcare insurance workers. They then voted to hurt someone else with Trump.

As they first seemingly voted for universal healthcare and then voted for abolishing what public healthcare the USA had. That’s not consistent with caring about it as an issue at all.

I can accept that politically, the Dems may need an enemy. Shared hating of someone is a potent bonding agent.

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#184

Post by scoofy » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:50 PM UTC

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #173

scoofy wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the tools, it's just going to be inter-generational warfare, and nobody really wants to say it out loud. The bigger the housing crisis gets, the more people are going to change things on the state level instead of the local level. This isn't a pendulum shifting event, it's a cascade, and that's why Abundance is doing so well, and that's why things are getting ugly on the left.

On a purely numbers basis the older generation of homeowners far outnumber the young. It's going to take a good while before the balance of power can be shifted. Democracy has the longterm tools for sure, just not for another twenty years or so. Hopefully over time yimby can take hold in some pockets and gradually expand out from those strongholds.

>On a purely numbers basis the older generation of homeowners far outnumber the young.

The point is numbers of voters. There are more young voters now than older voters, this is why we are seeing things change at the state level. Now that many millennials are in there 40's with no real shot at home-ownership it's starting to freak people out. Which is why we will continue to see the YIMBY and Strong Towns movements, not just grow, but accelerate in growth.

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#185

Post by KennyBlanken » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:51 PM UTC

gs17 wrote: post #160

ReptileMan wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The balance simple - renters have total rights as long as they pay on time and there is no damage on the property except normal wear and tear and 0 when when not paying. You as landlord can't say anything as long as the property is not damaged for the duration of the contract. You always renegotiate at market rates. There is no concept of squatting and evictions are fast. That's it. Works like a charm. No bullshits l…

> as long as the property is not damaged According to who? Landlords already tend to exaggerate to try to keep your security deposit, tenants would have no motivation to admit to damages after the lease ends. If the answer is "go to court", then "evictions are fast" will have to be amended.

[flagged]

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#186

Post by leptons » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:51 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #142

ReptileMan wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also her gender and skin color likely worked against her. She had less charisma than Hilary. Probably even less than Al Gore or Zuckeberg before his new software update was installed. And she had a history of bending the knee to the progressives.

[flagged]

>"Harris graduated from Howard University and the University of California, Hastings College of the Law."

So dumb.. she has a degree in law and was a very successful prosecutor.

>"Harris was elected attorney general of California in 2010, becoming the first woman, African American, and South Asian American to hold the office in the state's history.[56] She took office on January 3, 2011, and was reelected in 2014.[57] She served until resigning on January 3, 2017, to take her seat in the United States Senate."

Doesn't sound dumb at all. Your comment is sounding pretty dumb though.

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#187

Post by TimorousBestie » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:51 PM UTC

vondur wrote: post #167

TimorousBestie wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for higher property taxes to increase courtroom bandwidth, but I doubt most landlords are.

Those higher property taxes will be passed on directly to the renters.

Landlords typically despise property taxes (and land value taxes, c.f. sibling comment) because they have to pay them even if their property is unoccupied.

They’d much rather pass on the cost of higher rental insurance, or failing that an income tax hike.

But anyway, generally speaking, I think they benefit on average more from a slow and inefficient judicial system. The occasional 6+ month eviction battle is a rare negative outcome that comparatively few landlords have to deal with.

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#188

Post by wwweston » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:52 PM UTC

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #84

wwweston wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much where liberal politicians end up targeting most of their policymaking and even a sizable portion of their campaign platform (as demonstrated in the Harris platform). Yet "tangled up in social issues" remains a popular misconception. Why?

> Yet "tangled up in social issues" remains a popular misconception. Why? Do you think declaring their preferred pronouns helped liberal politicians? Who did it ultimately help? Probably the Trump campaign. Also, "defund the police" is easily the stupidest political slogan ever. It's bewildering. Did no one think "Reform the police" was a winner? And yet liberal politicians lapped it up.

Here's some quotes from the 2024 D platform:

"[We] made record investments in public safety, putting more police officers on the beat; today, violent crime is at its lowest in 50 years"

"Democrats provided funding for communities to hire more police."

"since day one, President Biden has been working to make sure police officers have the tools they need to protect their communities, including more police officers on the street. We need to fund the police"

"Democrats passed and President Biden signed the American Rescue Plan, with the largest ever federal investment infighting and preventing crime, reducing violence, and investing in public safety. That funding enabled cities and states to invest more than $14 billion in public safety and violence prevention, putting more police officers on the beat for accountable community policing."

https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/FINAL-MASTE...

Why is it that when looking for examples of what some are doing wrong, you're casting back over 5 years to an activist slogan that even then was treated as a poor expression rather than "lapped it up"?

It's almost like what you're here to do is actually reinforce the unproductive association rather than point the direction to a better way.

You want to talk about what's "bewildering"? What's bewildering is that your apparent confidence (or deliberately mislead?) confusing very online cheer-squad discourse from some corners over stated positions of most officeholders or candidates.

One could charitably assume that it's because you have some acquaintances or media follows who represent themselves or others as you've described and you've accidentally made parasocial promotion into an unfortunate wider partisan caricature. One could also warily assume you're an operative who is here to actively reinforce the associations you were ostensibly fighting against. Perhaps uncharitable, but hardly implausible these days.

The majority of liberal politicians are classic liberals who spend their campaign and policy time as you said you wanted, and it seems you haven't noticed.

"pronoun" doesn't appear in that 2024 D platform document. Also can't find it in a CBS news summary [1] of the Harris campaign. You know what does show up, though? Housing issues. Actual working class tax cut proposals. Child tax credits (pretty pro birth, very pro parent).

And those are what I think about when I think about liberal officeholders and candidates. Because that's what I see them talking about when I follow them and what's discussed in the media coverage I follow.

Where are you directing your attention?

[1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kamala-harris-platform-policy-p...

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#189

Post by grumpy-de-sre » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:52 PM UTC

nimish wrote: post #171

scoofy wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the tools, it's just going to be inter-generational warfare, and nobody really wants to say it out loud. The bigger the housing crisis gets, the more people are going to change things on the state level instead of the local level. This isn't a pendulum shifting event, it's a cascade, and that's why Abundance is doing so well, and that's why things are getting ugly on the left.

If old people -- literally or spiritually -- don't voluntarily get out of the way then they must be pushed out forcibly. It won't be pretty I'm afraid; not much else we can do however.

I vote, monetary policy, weapons of mass destruction [1]. At-least have a long term plan for deleveraging residential real estate. Sure that'll suppress construction even further for a while but I'm sure we can get to the other side.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_red_lines

Re: Abundance isn't going to happen unless politicians are scared of the status quo

#190

Post by bluecalm » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 6:53 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #107

TulliusCicero wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Portland, they passed some radical new zoning laws a few years ago that allowed anyone, anywhere the ability to zone ADUs on their property. And the cost to get permits is almost nothing. Yeah, see, this mindset is exactly the problem. Letting anyone put a granny flat on their property if they have space for it is radical ? Come on, that's a moderate change at most. And yeah, that kind of thing is never going to…

> invest tens of millions of public dollars every year into new public housing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-room_occupancy An SRO costs 25% as much to build as a studio apartment. The real obvious solution is to take all of the money we are pumping into "long-term" affordable housing options into basically just dormitories. If it's good enough for college students, it should be good enough for anyone looking…

I am for that as well. Build dormitories as housing of last resort. Limit tenants rights to make eviction of non-payers easier. As it is landlords take all the risk and it makes life of honest tenants much expensive and more difficult. It should be easy to rent and it should be easy to evict non-paying tenants. If the society thinks we should house everyone then that cost should be on tax payers in general not the unlucky landlord.