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If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

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Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#181

Post by rowanG077 »

pavelstoev wrote: post #144
msarrel wrote: post #4

Yup, always run extra everything. At least you can splice fiber now. And be careful of the minimum bend radius. Once, in the 90s, we were having intermittent network failures in our data center. I kept trying to troubleshoot it with the fluke, but the problem kept moving. When I pulled up the raised floor, I discovered that rats were eating the exterior sheath of the network cables. That was some fun troubleshooting!

And clean the fiber connector ends with a special cloth or cleaning liquid. Once, I had an intermittent link due to dust particles. Fun fact 1: When you don't have a proper OTDR fiber tester to check for breaks, you can shine a laser pointer down the fiber and see it projected out on a sheet of paper on the other end (you might have to call the person on the other end). Fun fact 2: If the other end is plugged into a…

The last one may not work anymore. A ton of phones nowadays have IR filters.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#182

Post by hadlock »

King County (Seattle) did this when wiring up the municipal network. Networking World ran at least two cover stories on this in the mid-1990s. They ran 200 ... bundles? Strands? Everywhere. That fiber is still there, under sidewalks, inside bridge structures, everywhere. Whoever bought the rights to that excess fiber from the city is probably subletting it to various FAANG and datacenters making a small fortune. That fiber runs through most of downtown seattle.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#183

Post by ghaff »

Arn_Thor wrote: post #180
ghaff wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Is this an actual problem? I have a bunch of wired connections (or at least had) but I'm not sure I ever saw a difference and I'm certainly not going to spend time or money retrofitting them for some Platonic ideal--ADDED, at least in recent years or outside of specific situations.

The answer is brick and concrete. You’d be amazed how well a load bearing wall in a high rise will block a signal.

Which are, of course, also difficult to retrofit with a lot of new wiring. Old plaster lath is something of an issue too but not nearly as much and is easier to retrofit--or just replace.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#184

Post by mrb »

walrus01 wrote: post #166
DannyBee wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And be careful of the minimum bend radius." The minimum bend radius of any good fiber is way less than cat6 at this point. G.657A1/B1 = 10mm G.657A2/B2 = 7.5mm G.657A3/B3= 2.5mm CAT6 = 25mm Flexible cat6 = 15mm. Fiber surpassed copper for flexibility almost 2 decades ago (G.657 was introduced in 2006, but let's call it 5 years before all forms became common). Even G.652 was only 25mm and standardized in 1984.

for an example of how good modern g.657 bend loss insensitive fiber is, for ftth applications and drop/last hundred meters, here's an example of it being abused with a staple gun and the resulting loss in dB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4wzJSInvww the above is from 12 years ago I've seen some g.657.b3 patch cords and work done for FTTH installs that are absolutely atrocious and yet continue to function properly.

This video is a cool demo. Trying to eyeball it, it seems all of the bend radii (except one) are over 10-20mm so this demo isn't that impressive. The only exception is the very last bend he makes with the weight where the radius is probably around 5mm. I find this ironic that when making this last bend is exactly when the video abruptly ends with some video corruption artifacts. As if they streamed the recording over this fiber :-)

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#185

Post by moron4hire »

rowanG077 wrote: post #181
pavelstoev wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And clean the fiber connector ends with a special cloth or cleaning liquid. Once, I had an intermittent link due to dust particles. Fun fact 1: When you don't have a proper OTDR fiber tester to check for breaks, you can shine a laser pointer down the fiber and see it projected out on a sheet of paper on the other end (you might have to call the person on the other end). Fun fact 2: If the other end is plugged into a…

The last one may not work anymore. A ton of phones nowadays have IR filters.

They all do and always have, they just aren't perfect.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#186

Post by DannyBee »

walrus01 wrote: post #166
DannyBee wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And be careful of the minimum bend radius." The minimum bend radius of any good fiber is way less than cat6 at this point. G.657A1/B1 = 10mm G.657A2/B2 = 7.5mm G.657A3/B3= 2.5mm CAT6 = 25mm Flexible cat6 = 15mm. Fiber surpassed copper for flexibility almost 2 decades ago (G.657 was introduced in 2006, but let's call it 5 years before all forms became common). Even G.652 was only 25mm and standardized in 1984.

for an example of how good modern g.657 bend loss insensitive fiber is, for ftth applications and drop/last hundred meters, here's an example of it being abused with a staple gun and the resulting loss in dB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4wzJSInvww the above is from 12 years ago I've seen some g.657.b3 patch cords and work done for FTTH installs that are absolutely atrocious and yet continue to function properly.

As i'm sure you know - for invisible installs, they don't even bother to have an outer cable anymore, just the 250um fiber with no sheath running bare on the walls.

Kinda insane.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#187

Post by DannyBee »

Gareth321 wrote: post #175
walrus01 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for an example of how good modern g.657 bend loss insensitive fiber is, for ftth applications and drop/last hundred meters, here's an example of it being abused with a staple gun and the resulting loss in dB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4wzJSInvww the above is from 12 years ago I've seen some g.657.b3 patch cords and work done for FTTH installs that are absolutely atrocious and yet continue to function properly.

This is proprietary technology and is definitely NOT representative of normal fibre cables. I know because I had had to deal with contractors doing exactly this, which crushed the cables we ran. There are many things which could be better if we were willing to pay higher prices for them. At the end of the day, cheap and good enough usually wins.

This is just G.657B3.

They are all proprietary in their coatings for sure, but it's made to a standard. The only thing is that it's not guaranteed compatible with old G.652 fiber if you try to fusion splice it.

You can get G.657A3 that is, if you want.

But this is representative of A3/B3 cables for sure, and easy to get.

AT&T fiber and Google Fiber actually use this particular stuff in their standard deployments.

Under the covers, most of the glass is usually corning clearcurve zbl (OFS actually makes their own i believe, but for others, less common).

The most common consumer cable these days is G.657A2/B2, which is easily capable of what you see in the video.

As for pricing, i'm not sure what you are paying, but this particular stuff is also easy to get (for a consumer) at 20 cents a foot or less. 1000ft is usually 200 bucks or better. Their are idiots on ebay trying to sell leftovers from fiber installs, but if you go to any really fiber cable seller, that's what you'll pay.

Here are totally custom cuts of 1.6mm outer for 0.25cents/foot: https://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/tlc-simplex-sm-clearcur...

if you want 3mm outer, it's 0.35cents/foot: https://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/tlc-simplex-sm-clearcur...

FIS is usually expensive, too. I didn't look hard since that seemed "cheap enough" already.

You can certainly get A1/B1 cable for like 18 cents/foot instead of 20, but if your contractors are crushing cables, seems a bit penny wise, pound foolish.

I also wouldn't run simplex cable, as it doesn't make sense anymore.

As expected, 6 fiber versions of the above cables are only marginally more expensive.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#188

Post by delamon »

bhouston wrote: post #27
david422 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. Just drop a switch down there.

I have, but now I have cable running along the base boards. That isn't optimal. Also I have 10G networking, so the ethernet switches are hot and expensive.

XikeStor SKS8300-8X costs about 100$, can do L3 routing, has 8 10G SFP+ ports, no fan and consumes ~9W. I'm running it in my homelab without any issues.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#189

Post by nobleach »

ghaff wrote: post #160
jaxn wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in an apartment. In a house, you want wired backhaul on access points, and wired streaming devices.

Why? Is this an actual problem? I have a bunch of wired connections (or at least had) but I'm not sure I ever saw a difference and I'm certainly not going to spend time or money retrofitting them for some Platonic ideal--ADDED, at least in recent years or outside of specific situations.

For me it's the metal studs in my walls. WiFi reception is truly awful. Fortunately it was prewired with Cat5e. But that will need to be replaced some day.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#190

Post by kuschku »

DannyBee wrote: post #139
msarrel wrote: post #4

Yup, always run extra everything. At least you can splice fiber now. And be careful of the minimum bend radius. Once, in the 90s, we were having intermittent network failures in our data center. I kept trying to troubleshoot it with the fluke, but the problem kept moving. When I pulled up the raised floor, I discovered that rats were eating the exterior sheath of the network cables. That was some fun troubleshooting!

"And be careful of the minimum bend radius." The minimum bend radius of any good fiber is way less than cat6 at this point. G.657A1/B1 = 10mm G.657A2/B2 = 7.5mm G.657A3/B3= 2.5mm CAT6 = 25mm Flexible cat6 = 15mm. Fiber surpassed copper for flexibility almost 2 decades ago (G.657 was introduced in 2006, but let's call it 5 years before all forms became common). Even G.652 was only 25mm and standardized in 1984.

I accidentally put a knot in a fiber, and it still worked. I'm still using it today, 3 years later (after untying the knot, ofc).
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