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Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

theintercept.com

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Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#181

Post by mmooss »

YZF wrote: post #163
mmooss wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say Israel does something that is or might be genocidal. How do people talk about it without being antisemetic.? > It is intended What evidence do you have of the GP's intent? Or of all the other people who say the same?

I didn't comment specifically about GPs intent. I am referring to the use of the word by a larger group. I have no idea what GPs intent is but I have a pretty clear idea why the word was adopted by the anti-Israeli antisemitic propaganda machine. Your question is answered here in fair depth: https://www.ajc.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2021-10/A%20Guid... On top of that a few tests we can apply: - Are Jewish people ju…

> Let's say you are or might be a serial killer. How should I talk about it without offending you? Just asking.

If that is an issue, it absolutely should be addressed; personal offense doesn't outweigh the deaths of others. Imagine if an alleged serial killer said, 'nobody can talk about that because it offends me.'

It's also a well-worn tactic to change the subject from one's own behavior to attacking people who raise the issue - the right-wing has been using it for years, now on behalf of Israel.

I'm not changing the subject: The issue is that Israel has killed ~50,000 people, injured many more, and destroyed most of their resources including things like healthcare, infrastructure, just buildings. It is blocking access to food and essential supplies. Palestinians in the West Bank are subject to have their property stolen, physical violence, lack of the rule of law, and being terrorized. Israeli leaders openly talk about seizing Palestinian territory, harming Palestinians, and contempt for harming them.

Whatever you call it, those are the issues. Whether it meets a legal standard of genocide is something a court can figure out, but there are warrants from a widely-recognized court.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#182

Post by mmooss »

zdragnar wrote: post #168
mmooss wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protests over issues like Gaza have a high probability of turning violent What is the probability? I'm not saying it never happens, but a 'high probability'? Let's see some data! Maybe there's a bias based on what you see in the news - they naturally cover the violent ones (and then depict them as the entire protest instead of something that happened off to the side that most people didn't even know occurred).

[flagged]

> pretty much anything that might attract the attention of antifa will also attract violent elements like the black bloc types or opposition

What does that have to do with Gaza-related protests? If you are saying it applies to them, you haven't established that there is a significant level of violence.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#183

Post by mmooss »

shadowgovt wrote: post #155
mmooss wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we remove the tech from the story If we remove the tech from the dropping of the atomic bombs, what's the big deal? You can't remove the tech; it is intrinsic to the issue.

Sorry, I don't follow. If you remove the tech from dropping of atomic bombs, you still have firebombs, gas attacks, and myriad other weapons that may or may not be considered either war crimes or simply too destructive to allow. You can still extrapolate and / or build analogies from the older models to the new one. Why can't we remove the tech in this context? Is the issue that the tech allows surveillance of public…

> you still have firebombs, gas attacks, and myriad other weapons

All are post colonial-era technology.

By analogy to your argument, if we can only address surveillance as if colonial-era technology was used, then we can only address military actions that way. What if someone set off a colonial-era explosive? Not a big deal, right?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#184

Post by mmooss »

refulgentis wrote: post #162
shadowgovt wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't follow. If you remove the tech from dropping of atomic bombs, you still have firebombs, gas attacks, and myriad other weapons that may or may not be considered either war crimes or simply too destructive to allow. You can still extrapolate and / or build analogies from the older models to the new one. Why can't we remove the tech in this context? Is the issue that the tech allows surveillance of public…

One simple difference that jumps out to me straightaway is the a gaping gulf between "decided to check it out" and "wrote down the names of everyone there and stuck it in a state-owned filing cabinet" People aren't taking umbrage with the cops knowing there is a protest, or attending one, you're right, that would be unreasonable.

Don't forget how someone can find any word in that filing cabinet, instantly, from anywhere in the jurisdiction (and is probably shared elsewhere).

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#186

Post by CalChris »

tptacek wrote: post #170
CalChris wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking down the street is not a constitutionally protected activity not that the police should monitor it without a statutory reason. Driving also isn’t. If you think different you’ll have to cite different. But assembly and expression are constitutionally protected. But back to my original question, why are the police monitoring constitutionally protected activity?

Walking down a public street absent some public safety or similar imposition is in fact a Constitutionally protected activity. It is not at all like driving.

No, that is your opinion and not a cite. In fact, the government can regulate your walking with cross walks and traffic lights.

Again, why are the police in this case monitoring constitutionally protected activity?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#187

Post by CalChris »

sitkack wrote: post #176
tptacek wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking down a public street absent some public safety or similar imposition is in fact a Constitutionally protected activity. It is not at all like driving.

Freedom of association implies freedom to walk down a public street.

No, it doesn't.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#188

Post by blorkusmelorkus »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #173
blorkusmelorkus wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are “the other” two here?

Propaganda and surveillance. If you’re communicating in the open, it’s trivial for a non-coöperating receiver to tap in. And it’s only a touch more trivial for a non-coöperating sender to join in on the rabble. You cannot have a private and public communication protocol.

Oh right. Thanks for explaining. There’s more packed into your comment than I expected.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#189

Post by milesrout »

swores wrote: post #153
milesrout wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Strongly disagree, both with the claim that the protestors don't care about peace elsewhere, and with the claim that Israel's actions are "defensive".

They were in response to being attacked by Hamas for the umpteenth time. Every single time Israel responds, doesn't wipe out Hamas, agrees to a ceasefire, and it is then broken a year or two later by these insane death cultists.

They have had enough. Fair enough, I think. No other country would be told it should just tolerate nutters firing rockets at it daily, rapes, murders, killing civilians at music festivals.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#190

Post by forgotoldacc »

gottorf wrote: post #174
southernplaces7 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of some society in which "petty crimes and code violations" are more or less similar socially to homicides? I'd suggest pondering a comment more carefully. People mostly don't contemplate gunning someone down anywhere near as frequently or thoughtlessly as they might jaywalk, or get a speeding ticket. (though there are exceptions of course)

The comparison doesn't have to be with homicides. "Every demographic does X at about the same rate" is such a flat-out wrong assumption that you'd really have to cherry-pick X, with lots of caveats and conditions, for it to hold true. I think there's an ingrained sense of revulsion, in all of us that live in the cultural era that descended from Enlightenment ideals of equality for all, against the idea that there exi…

The statement was about petty crimes. Things like downloading a song without paying.

If you think people of certain ethnic, racial, political, or religious demographics are more likely to download a song without permissions, I'd like to know what demographics you think are the most likely and least likely to do it.

Because I don't know of a single person in my life who has a computer and hasn't done it.

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