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Switching from Pyenv to Uv

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Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#181

Post by IshKebab »

guappa wrote: post #142
IshKebab wrote: post #29

Uv really fixes Python. It takes it from "oh god I have to fight Python again" to "wow it was actually fast and easy". I think all the other projects (pyenv, poetry, pip, etc.) should voluntarily retire for the good of Python. If everyone moved to Uv right now, Python would be in a far better place. I'm serious. (It's not going to happen though because the Python community has no taste.) The only very minor issue I'v…

uv belongs to a startup. They will surely introduce some wacky monetisation scheme sooner or later. I wouldn't get too used to it.

Maybe, but even if that is the case it's sooooo much better that even the worst case (fork when they try to monetise it) is way better than any alternatives.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#182

Post by IshKebab »

crabbone wrote: post #166
IshKebab wrote: post #29

Uv really fixes Python. It takes it from "oh god I have to fight Python again" to "wow it was actually fast and easy". I think all the other projects (pyenv, poetry, pip, etc.) should voluntarily retire for the good of Python. If everyone moved to Uv right now, Python would be in a far better place. I'm serious. (It's not going to happen though because the Python community has no taste.) The only very minor issue I'v…

Uv doesn't fix anything. The fixing that Python needs is the removal of the concept of virtual environments and fixing the import and packaging systems instead. The only thing it does, it makes bad things happen faster. Who cares...

Well maybe "fixes" is the wrong word. It certainly fixes the bad UX caused by virtual environments.

Basically it handles the virtual environments for you so you don't have to deal with their nonsense.

But you're right it doesn't fix it in the same way that Deno did.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#183

Post by IshKebab »

robertlagrant wrote: post #146
IshKebab wrote: post #29

Uv really fixes Python. It takes it from "oh god I have to fight Python again" to "wow it was actually fast and easy". I think all the other projects (pyenv, poetry, pip, etc.) should voluntarily retire for the good of Python. If everyone moved to Uv right now, Python would be in a far better place. I'm serious. (It's not going to happen though because the Python community has no taste.) The only very minor issue I'v…

I totally disagree. Having a single vendor with that much power is a bad idea. If the PSF were able to focus on tooling rather than their current focus, they would be great stewards of this sort of thing. Sadly I doubt that will happen, in which case I think many options is the best approach.

> If the PSF were able to focus on tooling rather than their current focus

Well yeah maybe if the PSF were able to get their shit together it wouldn't have taken a single third party vendor to do it for them. But they weren't and it did, so here we are.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#184

Post by albert_e »

IshKebab wrote: post #29

Uv really fixes Python. It takes it from "oh god I have to fight Python again" to "wow it was actually fast and easy". I think all the other projects (pyenv, poetry, pip, etc.) should voluntarily retire for the good of Python. If everyone moved to Uv right now, Python would be in a far better place. I'm serious. (It's not going to happen though because the Python community has no taste.) The only very minor issue I'v…

I am sold. Sign me up.

I have never used virtual environments well -- the learning curve after dealing with python installation and conda/pip setup and environment variables was exhausting enough. Gave up multiple times or only used them when working through step wise workshops.

If anyone can recommend a good learning resource - would love to take a stab again.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#185

Post by JimDabell »

alexjplant wrote: post #26
rullopat wrote: post #14

[flagged]

You're being downvoted (for snark presumably) but you have a point. During my tenures as a Python developer I've had to deal with pip, pipx, venv, pipenv, setuptools, conda, and poetry. I'd not heard of pyenv or uv until this thread (or maybe I've touched pyenv and got it confused with one of the 7 other tools I mentioned) and I'm sure there are other dependency/environment management tools floating around that I mis…

> Why in the Python ecosystem you change package manager every 2 week?!?

setuptools (2006), pip (2008), venv (2011), conda (2012), pipx (2017), pipenv (2017), poetry (2018)

They don’t have a point. You listed seven tools – most of which aren’t package managers at all – which were created over the course of twelve years. That’s not even remotely like changing package manager every two weeks. That goes far beyond hyperbole, straight into misrepresentation.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#186

Post by xenophonf »

baq wrote: post #124
xenophonf wrote: post #85

What does uv offer over bog-standard setuptools, pip, pip-tools, and build? Right now, the only thing I really want is dependency pinning in wheels but not pyproject.yaml, so I can pip install the source and get the latest and greatest, or I can pip install a wheel and get the frozen dependencies I used to build the wheel. Right now, if I want the second case, I have to publish the requirements.txt file and add the w…

It does everything with less surprises and faster. Just try it.

> Just try it.

I don't need to be told to RTFM. I was asking for advice. My attention span is my most valuable commodity, and since I'm not really surprised or slowed down by setuptools, etc., it sounds like uv probably isn't worth investigating.

Thanks.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#187

Post by satvikpendem »

ibic wrote: post #140
fluidcruft wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree but one thing I find very frustrating (i.e. have not figured out yet) is how deal with extras well, particularly with pytorch. Some of my machines have GPU, some don't and things like "uv add" end up uninstalling everything and installing the opposite forcing a resync with the appropriate --extra tag. The examples in the docs do things like CPU on windows and GPU on Linux but all my boxes are linux.…

I'm not sure if I got your issue, but I can do platform-dependent `index` `pytorch` installation using the following snippet in `pyproject.toml` and `uv sync` just handles it accordingly. [tool.uv.sources] torch = [{ index = "pytorch-cu124", marker = "sys_platform == 'win32'" }]

Some Windows machines have compatible GPUs while others don't, so this doesn't necessarily help. What is really required is querying the OS for what type of compute unit it has and then installing the right version of an ML library, but I'm not sure that will be done.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#188

Post by insane_dreamer »

lmeyerov wrote: post #60

Are people seeing it work well in GPU/pydata land and creating multiplatform docker images? In the data science world, conda/mamba was needed because of this kind of thing, but a lot of room for improvement. We basically want lockfile, incremental+fast builds, and multi-arch for these tricky deps.

Yes because the pypi cupy/cudann packages now work seamlessly with jax. Until not long ago we had to use the conda packages.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#189

Post by fluidcruft »

satvikpendem wrote: post #187
ibic wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I got your issue, but I can do platform-dependent `index` `pytorch` installation using the following snippet in `pyproject.toml` and `uv sync` just handles it accordingly. [tool.uv.sources] torch = [{ index = "pytorch-cu124", marker = "sys_platform == 'win32'" }]

Some Windows machines have compatible GPUs while others don't, so this doesn't necessarily help. What is really required is querying the OS for what type of compute unit it has and then installing the right version of an ML library, but I'm not sure that will be done.

Even without query, just setting an environment variable or having remember which extras are already applied to the already synced .venv some way.

Re: Switching from Pyenv to Uv

#190

Post by [deleted] »

xenophonf wrote: post #186
baq wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does everything with less surprises and faster. Just try it.

> Just try it. I don't need to be told to RTFM. I was asking for advice. My attention span is my most valuable commodity, and since I'm not really surprised or slowed down by setuptools, etc., it sounds like uv probably isn't worth investigating. Thanks.

[deleted]
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