Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#181

Post by bwb »

fractallyte wrote: post #139
jesterson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are trying to veer the convo in another direction, but to address it - it's been 3 years, hundreds of thousands died, and absolutely nothing achieved. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Because the weapons were drip-fed, preventing Ukraine from achieving any decisive, quick victory. Successive US administrations (Obama, Biden, and now Trump) want the Russian Federation to survive as an entity, regardless of its aggression and crimes.

Nuclear weapons are a scary prospect, that def plays into what can be done. Finding that line is not something that is easy.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#183

Post by ty6853 »

bwb wrote: post #179
ty6853 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are independent then they won't need to rely on being propped up by American taxpayers to survive. Because if they did, they'd be dependent not independent.

With that logic, any country too small to fight its neighbors should be taken over, their citizens killed, their women defiled. What planet are you from? Would you like to live in a world where the strong can do anything they want? Or do you want to live in a world of laws, where alliances protect groups of countries who want to provide their citizens with safety, economic prosperity, etc.

[flagged]

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#184

Post by chimpontherun »

jesterson wrote: post #123
DidYaWipe wrote: post #88

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

[flagged]

The history of your posts, oh my... But I will attempt to provide an answer in earnest.

All sane people are against an endless war. Or, any war for that matter. The only state that can be compared with an endless war is a mid-war period: the time when both sides know that the war is coming, and they live in misery, entrenching and militarizing, while the rest of human development stands still: economy is military-spending driven, birthrate falls, population flees, etc. Do we agree on that or do you need examples?

So, taking your question at its face value: the alternative is lasting peace. The history tells us that the only condition for lasting peace with Russia is either strong and decisive resistance or military alliance membership. Again, examples are a legion: both positive (Finland, Baltics, Turkiye), and negative (Georgia, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Syria, Chechnya to a certain degree).

The only path for lasting peace for Ukraine is to humiliate Russia on the battlefield. For that to happen they need weapons

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#185

Post by inglor_cz »

lukashoff wrote: post #176
inglor_cz wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I agree that the Baltics punch above their weight. They are also more laissez-faire in the good sense, not overburdening their economies with endless paper pushing (a French and German disease so to say), while keeping the environment reasonably protected. The rest of Europe could do worse than emulate their approach.

I am shocked by this myself, but facts are facts. There's also a great social net, free education + student allowances, and plenty of work. I have got no clue what the original poster of the main comment meant by broken economy. Absolute lies and disinformation coming from the ex-allies of ours.

People can do a lot of amazing stuff if their hands aren't bound.

I remember reading a German's enterpreneurs lament about wanting to lay a single electrical cable between his two nearby buildings. The paperwork demanded by German authorities dragged for half a year. He said that a similar work in Poland was papered through in two weeks.

Or, as a friend of mine in Prague quipped: "We want to build traffic lights. We need 28 stamps, including one from a forest management service. The closest forest is 5 km away (3 miles) from said intersection, but they still need to confirm their approval."

The Baltics are comparatively lean in this regard and it shows.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#186

Post by narrator »

arunabha wrote: post #19

It would be one thing if there was a clear policy and adherence to it. In that case, you could discuss and reason in good faith. However there is no such indication that this decision is based on a considered policy. Trump's supporters would say that this is a result of not wanting the US being involved in foreign conflicts. That is a laudable goal, however that is not what is happening here. From the article > On Fr…

The difference is Israel's enemies are easy to defeat. Russia, not so much. Europe made the same mistake as in world war II. Believing their own propaganda and convincing themselves that Russia would be easy to defeat. Trump talks to the military and knows what's reality.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#187

Post by narrator »

jltsiren wrote: post #44
arunabha wrote: post #19

It would be one thing if there was a clear policy and adherence to it. In that case, you could discuss and reason in good faith. However there is no such indication that this decision is based on a considered policy. Trump's supporters would say that this is a result of not wanting the US being involved in foreign conflicts. That is a laudable goal, however that is not what is happening here. From the article > On Fr…

It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working to restore relations with Russia. There is only one word for that: evil. Back in the late 90s to late 2000s, people in Western Europe generally had pretty negative views of the US. It was the country that refused to fight against climate change, launched an i…

We allied with Stalin in world war III, now that's evil. Putin will be a good ally against China, who is an actual threat to the United States.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#188

Post by citrin_ru »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #67
jltsiren wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working to restore relations with Russia. There is only one word for that: evil. Back in the late 90s to late 2000s, people in Western Europe generally had pretty negative views of the US. It was the country that refused to fight against climate change, launched an i…

Why do people think it is so far fetched that Trump is a Russian asset given his behavior in his last term (trying to blackmail Zelenskyy on an official call) and his credit problems in the past (no banks would lend to him given his failure to pay back any loan, with the exception of an obscure channel through a German bank)? Perhaps Trump is just in debt to Putin and this is payback, he was intentionally crass to Ze…

It's plausible that Trump owes some $$$ but what would stop Trump from just refusing to pay the debt back?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#189

Post by dworkr »

citrin_ru wrote: post #118
csomar wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a petty tantrum though it might look like one. You have to consider that the incumbents have won the US elections, that's not a small feat. What many people are missing is that if the US main challenger is China and beating Russia is a far thing, then it makes sense for the US to ally with Russia against China. For that, the US might need to give Russia something (some EU countries?) for this hustle and als…

Russia is close to becoming a Chinese client state. I don’t think Trump can stop this.

[dead]

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#190

Post by orbital-decay »

bradhe wrote: post #112
DidYaWipe wrote: post #88

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

Amazing to see posters still managing to blame an external enemy for their own humongous trillion-dollar consent machine working as designed in a direction they don't like this time.
Post reply on HN