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Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

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181–190 of 208 posts

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#181
post #35

I have to ask does anyone know why the site asks "Are you between 13 and 15 years old?" Rather odd both the question and the specificity.. Would this not be the same as asking; "Are you 14 years old?" Not to mention I almost clicked "Yes" thinking it was asking the more common "Are you at least this many years or older?"

> Would this not be the same as asking; "Are you 14 years old?" "between x and y" normally includes the endpoints. For example, if someone asks you to pick a number between 1 and 10, everyone would pretty much agree that 1 and 10 are acceptable choices.

Okay, but if you say "pick a seat between Steve and Paul" I'm not going to sit in either lap.

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus oil geopolitics

Yeah, that's smart too. And how the "Spacefaring Guild" requires spice to navigate the best routes between the stars. Oil for transport. Everyone brought to their needs by Pauls' threat to switch off the oil supply. It's all so smart, Herbert was a hypergenius I think.

> needs

knees

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#183
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was deliberate choice in a sub thread that's literally about literary metaphors. As a native english reader, writer and speaker of some six decades I grasp the tension in the use of ' literally "airquoted" ' and embrace it. I also enjoy Riddley Walker , the first edition of Clockwork Orange (sans lexicographic annexure), and the outrageously provocative shock value of the opening sentence of Burgess's panoramic sa…

> I grasp the tension in the use of ' literally "airquoted" ' and embrace it I can appreciate that and hope that I added to the tension.

Absolutely, I enjoyed making a comment that generated some push back and I enjoyed defending my considered choice.

My only mild disappointment is that while I opened the door by airquoting "mining" and drawing attention to an actual nation scale spice industry no one made comment on the "spice mining" in both Dune and in the Spice mines of Kessel being both the harvesting of a seasonally produced organic bloom.

In Dune the spice harvesters surface scooped fresh blooms as they appeared from active worms, on Kessel I believe (I'm no authority here) they harvested old buried organics using mineral mining techniques rather than fresh cropping from a surface source.

EDIT: It appears the Kessel spice may have been a mineral? .. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spice_mines_of_Kessel

TBH that's a rabbit hole of detail I'm happy to skirt.

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#184
post #59

Frank Herbert said him self in an interview that Dune was inspired from Sabres of Paradise by Lesley Blanch and that book is the story of Imam Shamil of the north caucasus.

Was looking for this comment, thanks. There was also a very lengthy article by s.o. about the fact which traces the origins of many details. The presently discussed article ‘Paul Lawrence of Dune’ sound as if written for political goals, rather than actual understanding of the origins of Dune.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-secret-history-of-du...

tl;dr: http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?t=4054

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's smart too. And how the "Spacefaring Guild" requires spice to navigate the best routes between the stars. Oil for transport. Everyone brought to their needs by Pauls' threat to switch off the oil supply. It's all so smart, Herbert was a hypergenius I think.

> needs knees

Ha yes! My phonetic spelling

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, psi predates modern sci fi and experiences of it are not generated by that. Belief is easy to find in preceding centuries too

I'm not talking belief either, I'm talking praxis ;) IME, what you refer to by a Greek letter is either "just there" as part of one's perceptual and cognitive functioning, or "just isn't" - the latter obviously being the predominant case, being more adaptive for survival in a newly Enclosed world. One even has some degree of control as to enabling or disabling it. Without guidance as to avoiding its many pitfalls, th…

You have a particular view. For me what's important is my experience. Theories are not really anything unless I can use it for that. But we can discuss it.

Regarding the difficulties, yeah that's why proper training is required, which social suppression hampers. Now with new age everything, psi's basically mainstream. Future is bright. In terms of evolution, I think it bifurcates, but that just pushes for the selection of people who can handle it. Ultimately we win. There's sufficient material for people to find their own way rn, tho still not easy.

Regarding the sociological history you propose: interesting theory, consider the black cross placed on the 3rd-eye on Ash Wednesday - ritual suppression? But I don't think any political force has shaped globally this aspect of humanity. I think what people have gone through with this is more the natural consequence of that ability engaging with the world during a time of ignorance. Evolution can involve struggle, aspects of this might include just another struggle, one of humanity's many. Which doesn't mean it all has to be struggle, and everyone's experience is different. But it's understandable that people might face struggle sometimes. I don't think it has to be that way. I think a lot of it is ignorance, and a lack of a proper framework. In a sense I think religions may be more attempts to provide frameworks for these things than suppressions of them. Tho it probably cuts both ways.

Regarding mimetic control of psi in the population: I highly doubt a few fictional portrayals was testing turning this on and off for people. There's been narrative (non-fiction or not) portrayals of these abilities across cultures...for ever?

Don't be misled by seeing ghosts in shadows - ie, by misinterpreting the unseen parts of some covert programs to convince yourself such whatever have more power than they do, i.e. don't fill in the blanks with your fears. Just like in Dune: fear is the mind killer man. Fear is your reality killer. So true. In a sense, Jesus provides a fairly good approach - the highest commandment - love. To create a heaven on Earth around you. Or stay in fear and create your own hell. More so if you're activated, because you're gonna warp reality more. Gotta stay high vibe, very important!

I do think that "Life on Earth" in general pushes this kind of ability to wake up. It's human nature - whether by suppression or support, any kind of engagement with someone's psi ability is going to push this to wake up in people. Pressing down, will push back. It just create another reaction. Keep in mind, it's not "not there" (you said it's either there or not), it's a bell curve, it's not binary. Some people are not aware of many things, psi included. With training in subtle awareness they'd become aware of many things, and psi would be included in that. It's like learning to play a sport: there's talent and there's training. But most people can grasp it given the opportunity.

If you want to attribute manipulation in the psi realm, consider people are embedded in a larger reality which largely is unseen - manipulations mostly come from these unseen realms, not from any human scheming. How to handle? Take care of yourself, realize there's nothing to fear and stay aligned with what's good. It's okay if this is not something you see, but hopefully this helps.

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#187

I'm convinced Herbert had some deep knowledge of psi phenomena. His descriptions of truthsayers reading people, timelines, race consciousness, and prescience are very similar to real experiences. His emphasis that it emerges through a combination of genetics and training of subtle awareness, plus the suggestion compounds could provide access to a state that could be sustained without them - also ring very true. The e…

Concerning truthsayers: It is absolutely the truth that a liar will automatically have a difficult time knowing when another person is being truthful. They will both automatically tend to believe the person is lying and not know how to recognize the signs that a person is being completely truthful. It's the opposite of an honest person being more easily conned. It's not in their expectations, because of their own lac…

Yeah, self-awareness is necessary for these abilities. It's also a form of subtle awareness - that level of introspection and awareness of inner emotion and thought helps you comprehend other people. Like Van Gogh training himself on self-portraits, to then paint and see others. You need it, definitely! Well, at least it helps. I disagree with you on Trump, but I guess we can still be friends right?

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#188
post #180
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, is putting out a match with your fingers a superpower these days? I can do that very easily, and it barely hits a 2 on the 0-10 pain-scale.

Weird brag but yes, I would guess most people would not just tank putting out a match with their fingers. I suppose it might depend on the match though. The big wooden ones would probably hurt more than the thin little ones that don't light half the time

[dead]

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#189
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not enough, you also have to take into account specific culture and circumstances. The same as in NK could have happened in several other countries in Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Cambodia), Africa and South America (various communist dictatorships) and Europe (all countries behind the Iron Curtain). So why only North Korea?

I believe the answer is the hereditary nature of the North Korean system. That is what is different in North Korea compared to those other countries. It leads to a country that is essentially a slave society. The owner is the Kim family. The other top people are overseers. The population are slaves. Propaganda and censorship of the outside world maintain the system. This was true of the other Communist countries also…

I'm not going to speculate about the reasons, because I'm not an expert. One thing to notice is that just south are the very same people forming a democracy. There was recently a coup attempt, failed in part by army and police refusing to carry out their orders. Not really a sign of slave mentality. Also they have a habit of jailing their politicians quite often.

Anyway juche, the current ideology of NK, does not even claim anymore to be communist.

Re: Lawrence of Arabia, Paul Atreides, and the roots of Frank Herbert's Dune (2021)

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concerning truthsayers: It is absolutely the truth that a liar will automatically have a difficult time knowing when another person is being truthful. They will both automatically tend to believe the person is lying and not know how to recognize the signs that a person is being completely truthful. It's the opposite of an honest person being more easily conned. It's not in their expectations, because of their own lac…

Yeah, self-awareness is necessary for these abilities. It's also a form of subtle awareness - that level of introspection and awareness of inner emotion and thought helps you comprehend other people. Like Van Gogh training himself on self-portraits, to then paint and see others. You need it, definitely! Well, at least it helps. I disagree with you on Trump, but I guess we can still be friends right?

No.

That which you do to the least of my brothers, you have done unto me.

No, but I'll teach you how to not be a loveless, narcissistic destroyer of happiness, like that purblind fool.

That doesn't mean I don't love you, but I am commanded to love you less than the people whose oppression you countenance.

Hitler was both self-aware and a hateful fuckhead. Self-awareness is worthless without a compassionate heart.

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