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Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#181

Post by Spivak »

Mistletoe wrote: post #155
userbinator wrote: post #151

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

We are under an attack by Puritanism that is quite astounding actually. And no one is doing anything. Everyone just keeps bending the knee. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1hqqpbt/newest_ver... Some of the things that are happening are just from the threat of “something bad might come down from the new administration”. It’s so ridiculous.

It's gonna be a weird few years that's for sure. I'll leave it to the historians to decide when the actual tipping point was but the shift in the GOP from being run by Republicans with a few bones thrown to Conservatives every now and again when it's time to drum up votes to the show now being run by Conservatives is going to be the point between two political eras.

It's by far not the first time this has happened but it's kinda surreal to be alive for one.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#182

Post by wongarsu »

kg wrote: post #173
laszlokorte wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what about synced bookmarks?

If you're syncing a bookmark that is somehow illegal content, it would come to rest on their servers and they'd potentially be liable for it. (IIRC they encrypt everything at rest, so this is a speculative risk)

Depictions of sexuality or violence are legal in most places, even if said depictions are graphic

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#183

Post by lopatin »

chmod775 wrote: post #170

Title is a complete lie/misleading. They get a license, not ownership. Let's dissect what it actually says, and we do it backwards, because given the discussion around this subject it seems like people space out or have their mind clouded by outrage before they get to the end of the sentence: > help you [do things] as you indicate with your use of Firefox. So this already only covers things that you indicate you want…

I still don't get it. Is Mozilla phoning home the fact that I pressed the button?

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#184

Post by jcranmer »

kbenson wrote: post #166
jcranmer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging from nearby wording, this is primarily geared towards the Firefox account stuff as opposed to the Firefox browser. (I'm not happy with Mozilla's decision to name everything Firefox, it makes things like this confusing.)

Yes, it seems like Mozilla has long had a problem of marketing getting in the way of communication. This keeps happening over and over gain. They make changes for marketing reasons, and then people are confused when they make policy changes because they've solidified their naming so much in the pursuit of brand recognition that their audience (rightly) is confused about what they're actually saying when they use that…

Mozilla is quite adept at own goals when it comes to privacy. If I were a Mozilla executive reviewing this policy, I'd send it back to the lawyers to make a lot more effort to be clear about what Mozilla will and will not do for stuff, in a way that is actually readable and understandable by lay people.

I have enough legal knowledge to know that most of this is basically necessary legal boilerplate because holy crap does the legal system suck, but Mozilla tries to pitch Firefox as a privacy-favoring alternative, and looks-like-everybody-else legal boilerplate absolutely undermines that pitch and more.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#185

Post by [deleted] »

lopatin wrote: post #183
chmod775 wrote: post #170

Title is a complete lie/misleading. They get a license, not ownership. Let's dissect what it actually says, and we do it backwards, because given the discussion around this subject it seems like people space out or have their mind clouded by outrage before they get to the end of the sentence: > help you [do things] as you indicate with your use of Firefox. So this already only covers things that you indicate you want…

I still don't get it. Is Mozilla phoning home the fact that I pressed the button?

[deleted]

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#186

Post by shmel »

kevingadd wrote: post #169
userbinator wrote: post #151

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

Firefox-the-browser isn't a service, it's a product. Their services are things like profile syncing. It makes sense to me that they wouldn't want content on their servers that they could get in legal trouble for hosting.

Legal trouble for sexuality and violence? I am sorry, in what jurisdiction are their servers? Iran or North Korea?

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#187

Post by jesterson »

anvuong wrote: post #165

Firefox performance has been trash for years, for many reasons. I still stick with it because it was included in my Ubuntu 8.04, which was the first OS I installed by myself, and more recently because of its stand regarding privacy. Now I might as well bite the bullet and move to Chrome or Edge, performance is much much better.

How do you define performance? For my use case I don't see any difference in speed compared to say, Safari.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#188

Post by Fnoord »

mrguyorama wrote: post #114
butz wrote: post #71

Remember the time, when browsers were competing who will load website fastest or who will render Acid2 test correctly? Those were the days.

That was great, except everyone just installed chrome because the website google told them to and put them right back in the exact monopoly position that allowed IE6 to stagnate. If you use chrome still, you are literally part of the problem. I still think Mozilla, just barely treading into the advertising waters, is probably a better option than the literal advertising panopticon that owns our world and data.

> That was great, except everyone just installed chrome [...]

Just to note the Acid 2 test was released April 2005 [1], and Google Chrome from December 2008 [2]. That's about 3,5 years.

At some point (around these mentioned years), Mozilla Firefox had a very good market share since MSIE's was dwindling, Safari's was minor (no iOS yet), and Google Chrome did not yet exist. Those were the days ;)

Also, Safari only exists due to Konqueror (and its dependencies), and Chrome only exists due to Safari, and Konqueror.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#189

Post by esperent »

kevingadd wrote: post #169
userbinator wrote: post #151

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

Firefox-the-browser isn't a service, it's a product. Their services are things like profile syncing. It makes sense to me that they wouldn't want content on their servers that they could get in legal trouble for hosting.

So, as someone else pointed out, saving bookmarks of porn and using their bookmarks sync service would be a problem.

It's easy to laugh and dismiss that. But what if you're a journalist covering war? You're going to have plenty of bookmarks of graphic violence, and therefore run afoul of this license.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#190

Post by chmod775 »

lopatin wrote: post #183
chmod775 wrote: post #170

Title is a complete lie/misleading. They get a license, not ownership. Let's dissect what it actually says, and we do it backwards, because given the discussion around this subject it seems like people space out or have their mind clouded by outrage before they get to the end of the sentence: > help you [do things] as you indicate with your use of Firefox. So this already only covers things that you indicate you want…

I still don't get it. Is Mozilla phoning home the fact that I pressed the button?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Unless the button says "phone home my information to Mozilla", this license wouldn't cover that. This license only covers whatever is necessary to make the button itself work - whatever is necessary to realize the user's intent.

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