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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

whitehouse.gov

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#181

Post by somenameforme »

intended wrote: post #156
dartos wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It required the judicial to completely defer to the executive branch in cases where the laws around executive departments (generally relating to the the limits of their regulatory power/authority) were ambiguous. Why doesn’t congress do its job and write laws that do things?

Because the republicans punish their own when they reach out to support bipartisan efforts. Even right now, congressmen have been threatened with being primaries if they don’t toe the line. There has been multiple decades of very public efforts to degrade and break the American system. Ever since watergate. Congress was broken.

I don't disagree with you, and neither would the Founding Fathers. In fact they were even opposed to the concept of political parties, but the power/convenience they enable means that lasted all of 5 seconds. But I would say that Congressmen being threatened with being primaried if they do unpopular things is literally the entire point of representative democracy.

I think the question is when that pressure to obey is coming from the people and when it's instead coming from the party. In the ideal scenario the party and the people (at least the constituency) would be in lockstep. In any case term limits would help. If you're going to be out of office in at most two terms, it eliminates any point about sacrificing your values for some sort of long-term favor/benefit with the party.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#182

Post by snowwrestler »

dartos wrote: post #147
somenameforme wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people that are freaking out are missing that this applies to the executive branch, over whom the President has already perfectly well established. Literally the first statement of article 2 of the US Constitution (which lays out the power/rules for the executive branch) is "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." The main point of this executive order is…

> It required the judicial to completely defer to the executive branch in cases where the laws around executive departments (generally relating to the the limits of their regulatory power/authority) were ambiguous. Why doesn’t congress do its job and write laws that do things?

Where do you think all these powerful agencies came from?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#183

Post by lostmsu »

greatgib wrote: post #126

If people think that we are safe because it is a democracy, and Trump was somehow elected, let's not forget that Russia is also a democracy and Poutine was also elected and re-elected. Now we can be scared because it shows that "votation" doesn't prevent dictators to grab the power to abuse if it for their own good.

Well no, the Putin's party wasn't. The fraud was widespread and decently documented, but not prosecuted, which is not the case here.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#184

Post by Balgair »

xyzal wrote: post #174
jaybrendansmith wrote: post #11

As Americans that believe in the Republic, what exactly are we supposed to do about this? Should we continue to implore congress to take action against this lawless behavior?

Where are the mass protests? Are there even any people in the streets?

I'll assume you weren't there on Monday then? It was even a day off for a lot of people.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#185

Post by pjmlp »

dkobia wrote: post #128

This new administration lays bare what we've known all along - the legislative gridlock and dysfunction in the house of representatives and senate has made them completely incapable of governing -- the least productive in a generation. This is opened up an opportunity for a well funded strongman, and the checks and balances that were intended to protect our democracy are now mere suggestions.

Most dictorships started by the people in power streamlining decadent processes and burocracy, by putting into place the new regulations that would improve everything.

Until a couple years later on average, a state protection organism gets put in place to check those organisations are working as expected.

Eventually, the state protection organism gets a bit carried away on what they are supposed to be checking on.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#186

Post by curt15 »

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #11

As Americans that believe in the Republic, what exactly are we supposed to do about this? Should we continue to implore congress to take action against this lawless behavior?

First, don't listen to the "we're so f*cked" posts on reddit. Only actions lead to results.

If you are a Republican but don't approve of how the GOP majority has basically rolled over and abdicated its duty as a check on the president, remind your congresspeople that they owe loyalty to their constituents, not to other politicians. Taxpayers pay their salaries.

The Democratic party is also in desperate need of repairs if you are interested in direct political action. They have been self-destructing over the past couple of years, plagued by infighting, deer-in-the-headlights paralysis, political tone-deafness, and incompetence in messaging.

In addition, the increasingly authoritarian shift by the Federalist society ought to make room for a new counterpart promoting the rule of law. IANAL but have always wondered why the Federalist society had no similarly prominent opposing organization.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#187

Post by grandempire »

error_logic wrote: post #154
grandempire wrote: post #30

The only rebuttal I see in the media is that congress set these up to be “independent”. But our government doesn’t have independent branches. In fact that sounds a lot like “unelected and unaccountable”. So which branches are these agencies under? Is it in the judicial, legislative, or executive - and if it’s in the executive why can’t the chief executive manage business? On the other hand, one of the issues brought…

Not unaccountable, just requiring the cooperation of multiple branches to remove. Cooperation which has been deemed too transparent, too vulnerable to actually caring about what is being destroyed.

What other constitutional procedures require cooperation between branches to make a decision?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#188

Post by grandempire »

snowwrestler wrote: post #170
grandempire wrote: post #30

The only rebuttal I see in the media is that congress set these up to be “independent”. But our government doesn’t have independent branches. In fact that sounds a lot like “unelected and unaccountable”. So which branches are these agencies under? Is it in the judicial, legislative, or executive - and if it’s in the executive why can’t the chief executive manage business? On the other hand, one of the issues brought…

If your question is whether the “independent” agencies are Constitutional, the answer is yes. Congress makes the laws and the laws can constrain the behavior of the President. If the law says the President cannot fire someone, or interfere in an agency’s work, then the President cannot. So who are such agencies accountable to? Congress. Just like the president is accountable to Congress.

So your understanding is that these agencies are part of the legislative branch and the senate/house would have the power to do this?

If it’s that clear will it be easy to take this to the Supreme Court?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#189

Post by grandempire »

zzleeper wrote: post #12

This will probably get flagged, but if you read this, spent a few minutes trying to understand the gravity of this specific EO. Every federal employee even in independent agents must and will jump when Trump says so. Even if he asks them to do something illegal (close the congress! Jail a democrat!), they must follow his orders. Because HIS interpretation of the law cannot be superseded.

What is an “independent agency”? Which branch of the government is that a part of? Which electoral representative do they report to?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#190

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

CPLX wrote: post #141
jaybrendansmith wrote: post #11

As Americans that believe in the Republic, what exactly are we supposed to do about this? Should we continue to implore congress to take action against this lawless behavior?

The actual answer here is to exercise actual power. Oligarchs are always greatly outnumbered. The only thing that is genuinely effective is mass movement. A coalition of labor unions could shut down all of Elon and Trumps businesses in hours. Block the entrances to the factories. General strikes, boycotts, that kind of thing. It’s not actually that complicated. Instead the modern Democratic Party is in love with appe…

What the modern Democratic Party knows, but understandably doesn’t go around trumpeting, is that they cannot organize mass collective action because there’s not enough people on their side. You talk about “a coalition of labor unions”, but even union members barely lean Democratic these days. There’s very few groups outside of the Democratic Party infrastructure which are polarized enough to take a side.
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