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The State of Vim

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Re: The State of Vim

#181

Post by arp242 »

dmortin wrote: post #4

I wonder how long vim and emacs can stay vibrant. I've used emacs in the last 20 years, so I stick with it, but new generations who are trained on vscode and such are less likely to use such "old fashioned" tools. Surely, there will still be emacs and vim users 50 years from now, but the user numbers and the community power will diminish as the graybeards gradually leave this plane.

Some time in the 80s (or maybe even 90s?) Bill Joy said he just uses ed, even though he's the original author of vi. That worked for him. I believe Linus still uses that 1980s Emacs-y clone that he kind of maintains for himself. jwz uses some flavour of Lucid Emacs/XEmacs from who-knows-when instead of "standard" GNU Emacs.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what other people are using. If Vim (or Emacs) works for you, then you can basically keep using it until the end of time since code are just text files, and these things don't really change all that much (outside of encodings, which is the biggest problem with older editors – but I don't see UTF-8 replaced any time soon, if ever).

I don't really know what the kids these days are up to, but I don't think it really matters. I guess there's still few Bill Joys around using ed, but the existence of vi, Vim, VSCode, or anything else doesn't really take away anything for them.

Re: The State of Vim

#182

Post by otikik »

the-grump wrote: post #178
otikik wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how my comment as hostile. But sure, don't substantiate.

It's hostile, and GP did basically substantiate by pointing out the strawman.

Sure, by editing their comment after wrote mine. I don’t really care at this point guys. Have a nice day and enjoy your language.

Re: The State of Vim

#183

Post by the-grump »

otikik wrote: post #182
the-grump wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hostile, and GP did basically substantiate by pointing out the strawman.

Sure, by editing their comment after wrote mine. I don’t really care at this point guys. Have a nice day and enjoy your language.

Thank you; have a great day as well.

Vim is not my cup of tea actually. I live in eMacs.

Re: The State of Vim

#184

Post by linsomniac »

wruza wrote: post #167
linsomniac wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow wezterm user here, I occasionally have redraw issues with neovim, maybe once a month of heavy use. Whatever happened to ^L to redraw the screen, it seems to no longer work... I've moved away from maintaining my own vimrc, and towards vim distributions, and they all seem to be neovim targeted. First it was LunarVim, and more recently after Lunar stopped being maintained to AstroVim. They have been quite good at…

Does this imply that Vim has no LSP support? Cause ALE is a Vim-spirited zeroconf-ish LSP bridge for those who don’t know.

Base vim does not have LSP built in, AstroVIM is a packaging of a bunch of plugins that includes the LSP plugins and more.

Re: The State of Vim

#185

Post by linsomniac »

arusahni wrote: post #118
linsomniac wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow wezterm user here, I occasionally have redraw issues with neovim, maybe once a month of heavy use. Whatever happened to ^L to redraw the screen, it seems to no longer work... I've moved away from maintaining my own vimrc, and towards vim distributions, and they all seem to be neovim targeted. First it was LunarVim, and more recently after Lunar stopped being maintained to AstroVim. They have been quite good at…

Do you have your terminfo set up properly? I used to experience bad glitching when working with vertical splits, but it went away once I applied this. https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/config/lua/config/term.html

My TERM is set to xterm-256color.

Re: The State of Vim

#186

Post by lawn »

wruza wrote: post #171
lawn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neovim turned itself into a pop-blink IDE What does that even mean? Just sounds like a lazy and false argument.

It was a selling point back then and the reason for a fork. Bram didn’t want to add async tech into Vim, cause async enabled various parallel-to-you visual activities. Neovim forked and did async+lua on its own terms. Vim later added async functionality, and I think it was the best outcome. Vimers still got shy LSPs and Neovimers got whatever they dreamed about in their separate emvironment. Good fork. Things may hav…

Async is only a performance detail and using a degorary term as "pop-blink IDE" to refer to the choice to include async is wrong.

I've been using Neovim since it forked and it has always offered a Vim-like experience, it's just that Neovim has given you more options.

Maybe that's why some think it's too "blinky" as it's possible to turn it into a blinky IDE if you really want to because it's more capable (and some do).

Re: The State of Vim

#187

Post by lawn »

sodapopcan wrote: post #122
jitl wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With no config file Neovim is just vim but with mouse mode enabled by default. With Lua and the new APIs it’s much easier to write powerful plugins that do crazy shit and use animation but none of that happens by default, you need to go out of your way to get that kind of action, same as with regular vim.

It's not, though. A bunch has been stripped out (interactive :!, :view, etc) and time only time will tell how much further they will drift apart.

It's true that there are minor differences but 99% of the experience is the same, with Vimscript and Vim plugins alike.

Re: The State of Vim

#188

Post by wruza »

lawn wrote: post #186
wruza wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a selling point back then and the reason for a fork. Bram didn’t want to add async tech into Vim, cause async enabled various parallel-to-you visual activities. Neovim forked and did async+lua on its own terms. Vim later added async functionality, and I think it was the best outcome. Vimers still got shy LSPs and Neovimers got whatever they dreamed about in their separate emvironment. Good fork. Things may hav…

Async is only a performance detail and using a degorary term as "pop-blink IDE" to refer to the choice to include async is wrong. I've been using Neovim since it forked and it has always offered a Vim-like experience, it's just that Neovim has given you more options. Maybe that's why some think it's too "blinky" as it's possible to turn it into a blinky IDE if you really want to because it's more capable (and some do…

What were these options? Something must have been very special to make a fork and not just a set of plugins. What was it, in terms of end-user features?

Re: The State of Vim

#189

Post by lawn »

wruza wrote: post #188
lawn wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Async is only a performance detail and using a degorary term as "pop-blink IDE" to refer to the choice to include async is wrong. I've been using Neovim since it forked and it has always offered a Vim-like experience, it's just that Neovim has given you more options. Maybe that's why some think it's too "blinky" as it's possible to turn it into a blinky IDE if you really want to because it's more capable (and some do…

What were these options? Something must have been very special to make a fork and not just a set of plugins. What was it, in terms of end-user features?

The feature I migrated for was async update and installation of plugins, and I used Neovim exactly as I used Vim a long time after that.

It's just in recent years I've migrated to Lua and the large amount of Neovim specific plugins (many that heavily depend on async for non-blocking operation of for instance picking or completion).

Re: The State of Vim

#190

Post by Anthony-G »

ossusermivami wrote: post #154
Anthony-G wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that. I was thinking of trying NeoVim but I regularly use the `:!` feature to filter (selected) text through Unix utilities – and `:view` if I forget to use the `-R` option when opening a file that I don’t want to accidentally edit, e.g., log files.

:! itself has not been stripped from neovim, it's the "interactive" :! that has been stripped (as the OP said) i.e if you do :!bash in vim you enter bash in neovim you won't

Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense and seems like a reasonable change to me.
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