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Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

samcurry.net

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Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#181

Post by downrightmike »

dylan604 wrote: post #68
aftbit wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was lucky to have the DCM in my 2019 Outback (which is responsible for cellular communication and thus this whole STARLINK thing) replaced with a bypass box under the warranty program related to the end of 3G service. My car was trying to go online 30 times an hour or something like that, draining the battery enough that it needed to be replaced after just 4 years. They don't have enough new DCMs so they were willi…

> So at least my Subaru cannot connect to the cloud anymore. Sounds like something you can use to justify a higher selling price when the time comes

especially those that the insurers are 10x the bill on for previous driving data collection

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#182

Post by Melatonic »

aftbit wrote: post #29
like_any_other wrote: post #2

> After reporting the vulnerability, the affected system was patched within 24 hours and never exploited maliciously. So 'only' Subaru, Starlink, their business and advertising partners, and law enforcement, can remotely track (and disable - don't think you can run from the law!) your car? > I didn’t realize this data was being collected, but it seemed that we had agreed to the STARLINK enrollment when we purchased i…

I was lucky to have the DCM in my 2019 Outback (which is responsible for cellular communication and thus this whole STARLINK thing) replaced with a bypass box under the warranty program related to the end of 3G service. My car was trying to go online 30 times an hour or something like that, draining the battery enough that it needed to be replaced after just 4 years. They don't have enough new DCMs so they were willi…

My 2017 hasnt had the battery issue yet (they said only some subarus are supposedly affected). How did you verify how often it was trying to go online?

Now very curios in this bypass box as well - I heard just manually removing the 3G SIM (supposedly easy) can also maybe cause battery issues. If the "bypass box" alleviates all potential use of the system that is ideal long term!

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#183

Post by Melatonic »

reginald78 wrote: post #133
mmmlinux wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW i never replaced the 3g box in my 2018 subaru, and never have a battery drain issue. the battery did fail about 4 years in to owning the car, but it was a cell failure not a drain issue.

My local mechanic said that there is a firmware update that supposedly fixes the radio drain last time I replaced the battery but I haven't looked into it. He primarily works on Subarus and it sounded like he'd seen that as a root cause of dead battery a lot.

Is that firmware update also just replacing the 3G SIM though with a 4G one? In that case it will just fix the issue of it not being able to contact the cloud servers.

Also makes me wonder - what if someone has a subaru and lives out in a very remote area where there is no 3G or 4G service? Would that not have the same issue as the cell towers being deprecated for 3G? Seems like (specifically for Subaru owners) this might be a more common type of living situation than other car owners too!

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#184

Post by Melatonic »

jmward01 wrote: post #151
mattmaroon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the Starlink you’re thinking of, that’s Subaru’s name for their in-car infotaimnent system and predates the SpaceX Starlink. So it’s just Subaru. Also I doubt any ad partners can disable your car (outside of vulnerabilities like this). Subaru can but that’s the case with most modern vehicles.

Any partner that pays enough $$$ can likely do whatever they want. That is obvious by the fact that a year of driving history is displayed. If they didn't want to sell the data/access then they wouldn't be collecting such a long history of it. This is evil. I will avoid being forced to give this information at every possible turn and the companies doing this, and hiding how much they collect, should all be shut down.

Its also possible they collect the data just to do it (and surely not to give in rare cases to law enforcement)

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#185

Post by Melatonic »

dantillberg wrote: post #112

Last year, I submitted a "right to know" request to Subaru, and they sent the following back. I've reformatted it for legibility. Basically asserts they'll do and sell whatever they want (except another car to me). > Subaru may collect the following personal information about a consumer: > Categories of personal information: > Identifiers: Consumer records, Commercial information, Internet or Other Electronic Network…

Good to know

Seems pretty blanket wide legalese. The part about audio recordings seems a bit troublesome however

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#186

Post by Melatonic »

duxup wrote: post #41
mavdi wrote: post #20

Not surprised. I've had a few interactions with Subaru connected services dev team as an external contractor from another car company, everyone was everyone else's cousin, friend, homeboy from India. Nepotism was rampant, no one wanted to listen to advice, a strong culture of corporate antibodies had formed. I'm surprised they even got it to work at this level.

I love my Subaru as far as reliability, all wheel drive performance in snow and ice, and such. But OMG it's consumer tech was dated when I bough it, and it's just full of inexplicable issues and caveats and such. Even just the limitations and the UX issues are so obvious that it sends a message that if they tried to fix them they would introduce just as many new issues. I'm at the point where despite the car being go…

I purposesly bought the last Subaru without Carplay/Android Auto for this reason - I could upgrade my head unit but I like the slightly more oldschool one.

The touchscreen is slow to respond and has few options and the only way to really connect a phone is bluetooth or 3.5mm . It really just does music and calls. However long term I was a lot more confident in phones supporting backwards compatiblity for bluetooth vs Subaru keeping carplay/android auto up to date - and I plan to keep this thing for a very long time

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#187

Post by Melatonic »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #159
js2 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2017 Mazda with CarPlay does something similar. It truncates any lists (songs, podcast episodes, contacts, etc) that CarPlay displays to 10 items. All it does is incentivize folks to use their phone. It's incredibly annoying because the Mazda command dial for interacting with CarPlay is otherwise excellent and I don't think that limiting the list size does anything to reduce distraction.

I really like the dials some cars come with like BMWs. Subaru doesn’t have any dials at all unfortunately - just a touchscreen with really bad quality. The interface also often has buttons with very small size that make it hard to operate.

My subaru has a fairly mediocre touchscreen and interface but almost all of the things I actually use are manual controls. I usually turn the touchscreen off first thing when I get in the car (two button presses). My phone connects automatically for music and I either control through the phone or via dials (like for volume) or buttons (like for climate)

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#188

Post by ben7799 »

olyjohn wrote: post #136
DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to your comments, I think Subaru's all-wheel drive system has been switched to electrical instead of mechanical, making it worse. There are roller tests on youtube which show Subaru AWD being outperformed by Ford AWD systems.

The CVT in combination with the terrible traction control also kills any chance you have of getting out of a stuck situation. Subaru's AWD system is now mostly just marketing. So it's basically on part with most AWD systems, because most of them really are a joke.

I'm curious which exact model/year you had and how you got stuck.

I've never even gotten anywhere near close to getting stuck in 12 years.

But I'm not a Subaru offroad enthusiast. It seems like lots of people really want to use a Subaru for situations where they should have gotten a mountain bike, dirt bike, ATV, etc..

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#189

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #171
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indians are some of the most racially nepotistic out there I’ve heard this claim made often here but never observed it in real life. I think you and others who repeat this claim are confusing nepotism with just using one’s network to accelerate hiring. If someone happens to have a social or professional network mostly of one race, that doesn’t mean they’re automatically nepotistic when they draw from that network.…

> Somehow this label rarely arises when white managers end up with mostly white teams. Why is that? Easy: If you're in a country that's ~90% white, why would it be a surprise that 90% of the labor ends up being white? Are you seriously trying to play dumb and question obvious stuff like demographics under the nepotism/racism playing card? Similarly, why would it be surprising that a team in India is ~100% Indians? Bu…

You’re making up the assumptions of nepotism. Everyone hires from their network or their employees’ networks. What do you think referral programs are, which are basically at every company? If you’ve worked with someone before and had a positive experience, they’re a much better bet than other candidates. Even if candidates are mostly white locally, the person doing the hiring may have past experiences where their network looks more like wherever they worked previously. That doesn’t mean they’re doing anything discriminatory or nepotistic now - they may just be hiring qualified people from their network, like everyone does.

By the way, I haven’t personally seen or heard of any examples of Indians (or other races) hiring wives and family members. This is often alleged and yet I’ve never come across a real life example. I am not saying it doesn’t happen at all, but that if it does, it is probably very rare and no different than how often it can happen with any other group. What I often see is people claiming that Indians hiring Indians (regardless of familial relations) is nepotistic, and I think that’s an assumption without basis.

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#190

Post by oremolten »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #56
duxup wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my Subaru as far as reliability, all wheel drive performance in snow and ice, and such. But OMG it's consumer tech was dated when I bough it, and it's just full of inexplicable issues and caveats and such. Even just the limitations and the UX issues are so obvious that it sends a message that if they tried to fix them they would introduce just as many new issues. I'm at the point where despite the car being go…

yep... there was a tv ad for subaru vehicles a couple of years ago (not that long!), and during the ad, they showed the infotainment system, where the user pans the map on the navigation touchscreen, and the map moves at maybe 1fps! in an ad! I kinda wish they standardized the car interface for tablets (like android auto, but more features), where you could just buy a tablet and insert it in (like din slots for radio…

unfortunately the entire global system is designed so that more has to be sold than last year. in the US as a publicly traded corporation you are legally liable to make more than the year before... we're lucky cars even last as long as they do now...
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