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The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

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Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#181

Post by numpad0 »

usrusr wrote: post #140
jgilias wrote: post #36

I sometimes chuckle that most of the cool Lexuses are now Priuses under the hood! But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I though…

I would not call a CVT "not a gearbox". Were Audis equipped with their multitronic option (not in any way related to hybrid or BEV) "cars without a gearbox"?

Prius system is considered "CVT" for bureaucratic reasons only, it's slightly fancier EV style reduction gear.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#183

Post by mixmastamyk »

jajko wrote: post #30
inciampati wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A regular EV also requires no special infrastructure. Just your regular house electrical system (e.g. 120v wall outlet in the US). Only on long trips do you need fast chargers or does range anxiety kick in. If you do a lot of long drives I can see that being a problem. But if not I'd be willing to bet you'd lose less time charging than taking your vehicle to the mechanic for maintenance and repairs. Because the EV, w…

Not really. Living in Switzerland, colleague has Model S, and over whole night plugged in his house he can charge only around 9km/h. That basically covers his commute but he can't build up charge for the weekend if he started week empty. Not even going into the fact that most folks here live in apartments and not standalone houses, and charging situation there is usually terrible and overhead of owning electric car i…

Europe has higher voltage, 230, so should go faster than charging from 120V.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#184

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

_yb2s wrote: post #167
jgilias wrote: post #36

I sometimes chuckle that most of the cool Lexuses are now Priuses under the hood! But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I though…

The Prius system is an excellent design, but as someone that loves driving, it just feels and drives awful- little tactile or audible feedback on any of the controls, and really unresponsive to inputs- arguably dangerously so. My regular daily driver is an old Porsche Boxster, and by comparison the Prius feels like I’m driving a dishwasher or playing a cheap arcade game- it will get you there reliably but it’s just n…

> a pure EV with a small range extender not connected to the drivetrain mechanically

That is, a series hybrid, like a diesel locomotive?

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#185

Post by wtallis »

dgfitz wrote: post #156
recursive wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will people always think vroom vroom sounds cool? As far as I'm concerned, we can't get rid of it soon enough. When I rent an ICE car, I'm always annoyed by the engine revving sounds.

I’d much prefer to hear a car coming than not, personally.

The fake engine sounds played through the cabin speakers don't help with that.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#186

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

Tade0 wrote: post #162
dkarl wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't stand having a car not react immediately to my input I'm spoiled from years of Priuses now, and driving gas cars, even fancy and expensive ones, feels bizarrely primitive. The lag between the pedal and the response, and the complex relationship between the input and the response, feels antiquated and arcane.

A while ago I rented a regular car and what bugged me was all the additional vibration associated with parts grinding and rolling against each other. Also at least once I almost went "woah, horsie" as the car lunged forward because I tapped the accelerator a moment after it shifted to a lower gear without me noticing. It used to be even worse. I had an opportunity to drive a 2005 BMW 7 series in a city where the spee…

> it couldn't decide which gear to pick.

I haven't felt that since I've been driving my CVT ICE for so long.

Then again, a coworker told me the CVT is likely to break before 100,000 miles. So.... thinking of buying a Prius. I love Priuses.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#187

Post by CharlieDigital »

goosejuice wrote: post #118
CharlieDigital wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kinda OK with them just dominating hybrids; especially plugins. I own a 2024 Prius Prime (PHEV) and the setup works great. No range anxiety, no special charging infra (I just plug in on a normal 120v overnight). I got the car in Feb 24 and maybe pumped gas a total of 8 times? If I didn't make two longer trips, it would have been 6. But also, the power output is pretty great and an upgrade over the hybrid only mod…

I was planning on buying the highest trim '24 Prius prime but availability and dealership markup made it unreasonable even in a large city. The lower trims didn't seem worth it. Instead I bought a used '23 model 3 long range with every upgrade (accel & fsd) and still saved money. Car had a few thousand miles. I'm super happy I didn't get the Prius. Spec wise the Tesla is superior. Driving our other ice car is less en…

The trick with the Prius Prime (and all PHEVs) is to lease and buy out the lease. That's a $7500 discount.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#188

Post by _yb2s »

epolanski wrote: post #175
_yb2s wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Prius system is an excellent design, but as someone that loves driving, it just feels and drives awful- little tactile or audible feedback on any of the controls, and really unresponsive to inputs- arguably dangerously so. My regular daily driver is an old Porsche Boxster, and by comparison the Prius feels like I’m driving a dishwasher or playing a cheap arcade game- it will get you there reliably but it’s just n…

It's fine to demand more from a car, but to most of us it has to move us from point a to b.

I honestly never quite understood this perspective or why it's so popular... in general I try to always find ways to do normal life things a little weird, or make it a little more challenging, fun, and memorable- and try to break up the routine drudgery. Even just getting groceries can be a fun adventure with my kid if we put the top down on the Porsche, play some music we love, and maybe go to a weird store that targets a different culture, or has weird surplus/unsold items.

Doing things 'weird' usually makes them cheaper and less crowded/faster as well- as a result of less demand.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#189

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

esalman wrote: post #119
jgilias wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it did take some time for me to get used to how a hybrid sounds. It’s fine when not driving aggressively. When you floor it though, it does feel weird when the engine jumps to the highest safe revs and stays there. That’s a small price to pay for reliability and smooth power delivery though.

Are you talking about how the CVT transmission sounds?

My ICE CVT is like that, and hybrid systems behave sort of like CVTs.

The computer has an idea of "At this low RPM the engine is most efficient, at this high RPM it produces maximum horsepower". So if you floor it, the computer in either a CVT or a hybrid will bring the engine to full power and it will just sit there as the car accelerates.

The engine is getting loaded up and putting out more torque, and the throttle is opening, but it isn't really revving. In mine it does slowly climb from maybe 4,000 to 5,000 RPM, but it doesn't do the "rrrrRRRRRR... rrrrrrrRRRRR..." like a transmission with fixed gear ratios.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#190

Post by CharlieDigital »

saltcured wrote: post #180
tzs wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well do Prius Primes (or other PHEVs) handle long periods where one's daily mileage is well under the EV mode range and one is able to charge at home every night? I think it has been 5+ years since I've driven more than 25 miles in a day and even longer since I was away from home overnight. I've read ICEs can have problems if you go too long without running them. Will the Prime's software automatically run the IC…

Also, have they sorted out the 12V battery management for this low use scenario? Our family has an older Hybrid Camry from around 2010 and it will destroy 12V batteries with too much local driving and parking. A typical regular ICE does better in the same conditions. From the behavior, I assume it's because they only charged the 12V via a weak alternator when the ICE runs, rather than also keeping it charged via DC-D…

They haven't solved it.

I just returned from a 21 day trip and my 12v was dead because I left the Prius off the charger. It's fine as long as it's on the charger (my guess is it trickle charges it), but if you leave it off the charger, the traction battery doesn't maintain the 12v.

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